Who started it?


Corrente:

In all the Oakland footage I’ve looked at, I’ve seen no evidence of rock throwing at police.


Cannonfire:

To look at this headline from CNN, you wouldn’t know that the violence was caused by the police


Back to reality – here’s what a protester who was there told Lawrence O’Donnell:

Oakland Interim Chief of Police Howard Jordan: “At that point we were in a position where we had to deploy gas in order to stop the crowd and people from pelting us with bottles and rocks.”

O’Donnell: “Did you see people throwing bottles and rocks at the police before they used those tactics?”

Tasha Casini: “Umm, yeah. People were doing that.”

O’Donnell: “What do you think the police response should have been to that?”

Casini: “I think that the use of tear gas, rubber bullets and flash grenades are a completely inappropriate response to bottles being thrown at police officers who are in full riot gear. So I think they should have absolutely not used any chemical weapons.”


Hey, the cops are wearing bullet-proof vests, so it should be okay to shoot at them too, right?

Seriously though, some of these protesters seem to think “freedom of speech” means “the right to do whatever I want, wherever I want, whenever I want” and any effort, however slight, to restrict the “time place and manner” of a protest is oppression. And if the cops do anything other than watch it is police brutality.

On October 20th the City of Oakland gave notice to the protesters that they could no longer camp overnight at Frank Ogawa Plaza. They were specifically told they could still protest there every day from 6 am to 10 pm.

The protesters ignored the notice.

Last Tuesday morning the police told the protesters to leave or get arrested. A few left, the rest were arrested. Afterwards the plaza was cleared of tents and other camping equipment and then cleaned.

Last Tuesday evening approximately 1000 protesters tried to retake the plaza. When the police blocked them from doing this the protesters threw bottles, rocks and paint at the police.

BTW – As Affinis at Corrente points out, none of the protester-provided footage of events shows the protesters throwing anything at the cops. I wonder why that is?

Hmmmm?


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41 Responses to Who started it?

  1. Mary says:

    “Um, yeah. People were doing that.”

    There we all are.

    Amazing how many “liberal” blogs won’t include that info in their daily rants , while they’re enthusiastically condemning Fox et al for not giving their listeners the “facts.”

    There are “veal pens,” and there are “veal pens.”

    Not much difference, anymore, except knowing which tribe they belong to, going in.

  2. DeniseVB says:

    The left leaning SFGate has a good roundup of events:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/26/MNUB1LLTC9.DTL&ao=all

    Many protesters did acknowledge agitators were provoking the police.

    Police gave repeated warnings to protesters to disperse from the entrance to Frank Ogawa Plaza at 14th Street and Broadway before firing several tear gas canisters into the crowd at about 7:45 p.m. Police had announced over a loudspeaker that those who refused to leave could be targeted by “chemical agents.”

    The police were in riot gear, did they think they were going to toss air fresheners?

  3. WMCB says:

    I’ve only seen video of occutots screaming “Fuck YOU” at the police, charging them, setting off firecrackers, throwing paint bombs at them, and armed neo-nazis with assault rifles walking around saying they are there to resist the govt and “protect” the protestors from them.

    So I understand why it is so difficult to believe and beyond comprehension that the Ghandi-esque dears would ever be so crude as to throw a bottle.

  4. yttik says:

    I saw some cops claiming protesters were throwing fireworks, rocks, and glass bottles of paint at them. Since the cops being interviewed were splattered with various colors of paint, it sounded like a reasonable accusation.

    .

  5. DeniseVB says:

    Ouch, the DCCC wants you to Stand with Occupy! Or Against Republicans! Not sure which ;)

    http://www.dccc.org/pages/occupy

  6. yttik says:

    The President of SCCC has just dropped the rope in the tug of war, and after meeting with public officials and the college’s legal team, he has decided to let the protesters move onto the campus. I think they are trying to prevent the violent confrontations with the police that could happen at 5 today when the Occupiers have promised to invade and set up camp at the college.

  7. DeniseVB says:

    More on Scott Olsen, the war vet who was injured. Some interesting factoids …

    http://www.verumserum.com/?p=31617

    But the bottom line of this article says it all,

    That said, this story is really not about Scott Olsen. It’s about a protest movement inspired and organized by anarchists who wish to destroy this nation, while falsely claiming to represent middle America. And it’s about a national media engaged in uncritically promoting this narrative. Scott may be the victim of excessive police violence – this has yet to be conclusively determined. But he is also a victim of a fundamentally anti-American movement way too eager to use his military service as propaganda.

    • WMCB says:

      I saw that. Evidently he has an “I hate the Marines” website, and posted this on his flickr account, which says to me he had some issues while in the marines:

      I was talking to my 1stsgt regarding a pending adsep since i had been accused of using cocaine. Anyway, when we were done talking, he used as a parting greeting “stay marine”. He clearly didn’t think that one through. It was no secret that I couldn’t wait to get out and on top of that, the MC was trying to kick me out. I was going to bust his balls over it, but I went and took a nap instead.

      Adsep is Administrative Separation. It means you were put out for a reason – could be medical, a pattern of bad conduct, etc. Your discharge papers may or may not still categorize you as an Honorable Discharge, depending on how bad it was, but an adsep, unless you are wounded or sick or something, is not a good thing.

      • WMCB says:

        Hmmm. Okay, that part was on a forum, not his flickr account. I misread. My bad.

        • myiq2xu says:

          I was talking to my 1stsgt regarding a pending adsep since i had been accused of using cocaine.

          “I was falsely accused of using cocaine just because I tested positive for cocaine during a piss test.”

          That’s an “other than honorable” discharge.

      • yttik says:

        I see OccupyMARINES is being rational and non partisan:

        “In Response To The Oakland Shooting Of Scott Olsen OccupyMARINES Request The Following:
        The GOP Cowards Responsible For Influencing This Event Be Brought To Justice. Track Names And Photos Of Each And Email Them To Us…….”

        http://anonops.blogspot.com/2011/10/in-response-to-oakland-shooting-of.html

        • Mary says:

          GOP cowards? Is he calling all cops GOP cowards?

          Good grief. This is your brain on drugs.

        • WMCB says:

          Notice how the Democratic mayor that ordered the cops in is never mentioned.

          That’s another tidbit that makes me suspicious of Occupy. They rarely blame a Democrat for anything. EVERYTHING bad in the world is the fault of the rich and the evil Republicans.

        • soupcity says:

          That site seems to be affiliated with these guys, they are using their logo anyway. I find it hard to believe that there are a lot of real Marines involved here. Fishy as hell.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group)

        • WMCB says:

          soupcity, Anonymous and the anarchist punks have been threaded throughout OWS from the very beginning.

          If you are going to associate and intertwine with shadowy groups with no way of knowing who they are or what their real goals are, then don’t whine like a baby when others view you and your movement with great suspicion.

          Secretiveness never inspires trust.

        • soupcity says:

          I love how all their websites are full of google ads.

      • DeniseVB says:

        Olsen was also discharged as a Lance Corporal which means he lost a stripe too. After 4 years you should make Corporal, then Sgt if you re-enlist. Scotty was not happy.

  8. WMCB says:

    Aaaaaand Occupy LA’s general assembly descends into chaos because the dudebros demand NO RULES for them, then strut around trying to use intimidation to enforce their version of rules on everyone else:

    Because even by the time the General Assembly was ready to meet at 7:30 p.m., things were unraveling. A large group, made up almost entirely of men, stood in a circle denouncing the General Assembly and their efforts to “police” the camp, particularly regarding drinking or smoking weed. Anyone who spoke in favor of a code of conduct was aggressively booed. Adding to the morass were four different men looping in and out of the circle, each armed with his own megaphone, shouting their own grievances and rhetoric. When a runner from the General Assembly made the announcement that they would begin the meeting, he was thunderously shouted down, then someone yelled out “The GA is dead!” and the crowd erupted in both celebration and shock: “We don’t want you or your fucking procedure!” One male protester, in an army helmet and no shirt, cried out as shoving matches erupted between several groups of men. The young man who was leading the informal group yelled: “This is the People’s Forum! There are no committees, there are no rules, everyone gets to speak. Get in a circle! GET IN A CIRCLE!” A majority of the crowd abided, although they were openly chastised when the circle took on non-circle shapes.

    A facilitator from the General Assembly tried one last time to get the group’s attention through a call-and-response tactic. He was shouted down by two men, one of whom was shouting directly in his ear. Then it was announced that there would be two minutes of drumming. The loud thumping gave way to spastic dancing and eventually some primal bellowing.

    http://www.theawl.com/2011/10/the-night-occupy-los-angeles-tore-itself-in-two

    • WMCB says:

      I really love that the dudebros decided there were “no committees and no rules”, then openly chastised and screamed at people when they failed to hop to and form that orderly circle when ordered by the dudebro. Goosestep much?

      This is what anarchy and chaos ALWAYS comes to. Whoever can grab the bullhorn and be the biggest bully grabs power. While shouting slogans about “freedom”, of course. Always.

    • Jeffhas says:

      Thank god these guys have already spent every last waking hour producing something or contributing to our society – let alone know the pride of accomplishment. Can you imagine if we had not had the benefits of their insights all this time?

    • DandyTiger says:

      I’m soooo surprised. Not. What a bunch of assholes. Seriously, there mist be some powerful kool-aid passed around for people to continue on with this insanity.

      Another fun tidbit, little school children are being brought to some of the occupy events as a school outing, and guess what they have them do. Wait for it. They get to them to do the human mic for an obviously longer than needed amount of time. Cult much.

  9. WMCB says:

    Lots of Beckistani ratfuckers in the comments, who amazingly were liberals all their lives until Occupy, and still bogusly claim to be so. Funny, that.

    My point is that when you don’t have a real sense of purpose, it will lead to this kind of division and conflict. It’s also a deeply paranoid organization. When people disagree with tactics, they’re labelled “agents provocateurs.” Look at this extraordinary video where a person with a dissenting opinion is branded as an infiltrator and silenced…

    It gets good about 2 minutes in. Who are the “facilitators? And stack keepers? Who gave them that position? Who is controlling this seemingly “no one in control” process? Who came up with the People’s Microphone and imposed it in the first place?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkwtOBt2i1o

    • WMCB says:

      That was supposed to nest under the occupy LA piece.

    • DandyTiger says:

      So in other words, if you disagree, you’re labeled a racist. Er, I mean agents provocateur, and frozen out as a lesson to others to STFU and go along. Why does that sound family.

      I hope no one now participating in these groups dares think in the end they can say anything against Obama.

  10. Karma says:

    And don’t forget FoxNews….I mean Mother Jones…..has the protesters chanting “Don’t throw shit! Don’t throw shit!”

    While the cops report glass, vinegar, and urine. Not to mention those paint bombs. I’m sure there’s just paint in those….

    http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/10/occupy-oakland-protesters-violence.

  11. 1539days says:

    Wow. I just saw this site on the TC blogroll. Is that a new development?

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