Toldja so!

Ian Welsh:

So, compared to McCain, was Obama actually the lesser evil?

I thought so at the time, but I’ve been wondering for a while. As I’ve pointed out, frequently, Bush failed to slash Social Security. Obama is probably going to do so soon. I doubt McCain, any more than Bush, could have done so.

Of course, on the negative side McCain might have gone to war with Iran, wouldn’t have given up on DADT no matter how hard he was pushed, and, er, other stuff. And Palin as President isn’t something to look at lightly.

But domestically, would he have been worse? Maybe, maybe even probably, but it’s no longer clear cut. The fact that one can even ask the question, can even argue it, is beyond sad.

Three years ago I said:

“McCain is the lesser of two evils, Obama is the evil of two lessers.”

Let’s assume for a moment that McCain had won. What would he have done differently? How would the Democrats in Congress have reacted to his proposals? Would the Republicans still have done so well in last year’s elections?

Would the economy be better or worse? Would be still be fighting the same six wars?

Most importantly, would the San Francisco Giants still have won the World Series?

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49 Responses to Toldja so!

  1. DeniseVB says:

    Reminds me, the lesser of two evils is stll evil 🙂

    I don’t think McCain was that popular among Republican voters, too moderate? Too RINO? I think Sarah was the only reason he didn’t lose by a bigger margin.

  2. WMCB says:

    McCain would have gotten pushback from the right, the left, AND (people forget about this) the press.

    One of the primary reasons why Obama is such a disaster is because he’s spent most of his first two years in office being coddled and insulated from the vigorous debate and criticism of his policies that normally accompany big decisions by a president. That process, largely driven by the press, often keeps presidents away from the precipice of too many REALLY awful decisions. It at least causes them to temper their bad plans to some degree.

    This country handed the keys to Obama, stepped back, and said “whatever you want to do, go ahead, and no one will be allowed to raise serious objections”. That is a power that NO, and I mean NO, American president has ever been allowed.

    That never would have happened with McCain.

  3. Palin as POTUS? Wow, she might tame the oil companies nationally. Can’t have that.

    • WMCB says:

      Yep. The thing with Palin is that she didn’t go after “evil business” as a whole. She went after the govt policies and corruption that gave certain businesses an unfair advantage in ripping off the taxpayer.

      And neither the R’s or the D’s can stand for that, because shit like that cuts off BOTH their gravy trains.

    • Dario says:

      Yeah, like Obama hasn’t done that. Oh, pleeaze!

    • Dario says:

      I mean, Obama not only mishandled the BP mess, but let that company get away by paying $20 billion dollars. Pittance. I think Palin would have demanded a good clean up and would have been on top of what BP was doing during the disaster.

      • WMCB says:

        During the BP disaster, when Obama was claiming that federal hands were legally tied from interfering, that the poor powerless president had to just leave it to BP to handle it, Palin called him out.

        She whipped out the laws passed after Exxon Valdez and said “Au contraire, Mr. President – you have the authority to step in and clean it up and investigate the causes all you want.”

        Of course the press let Obama’s excuse-making stand, never looked at the legislation she cited, and never covered Palin’s assertion that he was lying his ass off, and could have intervened.

        • myiq2xu says:

          Funny how that huge environmental disaster just vanished after Dick fixed the hole.

        • DandyTiger says:

          Funny how that huge environmental disaster just vanished after Dick fixed the hole.
          And funny how in addition to the media, fauxgressives don’t seem to care about that possible 500M gallons of crap still out there somewhere. So much for being pro environment. Sounds like yet another tribal faux policy where they don’t really care about the issue, it’s just a pretense to indicate tribal membership.

        • WMCB says:

          You know what? As opposed to urban creative class types who mostly posture and preen, in my experience “country” type folks and sportsmen and hunters really do care about the environment on a visceral level. They spend a lot of time close to the land, close to wildlife. They spend a lot of time out there taking deep breaths and admiring the beauty and glory of nature. They understand how precious it is – not as a political “cause”, but in reality.

        • ralphb says:

          Since Obama was elected no one mentions Katrina damage either and, last time I checked, New Orleans hasn’t exactly been rebuilt.

  4. djmm says:

    McCain was more liberal than Obama. But the very last thing the Republican Party wants is a moderate Republican President, especially one who might be successful. They have done their best to squeeze out moderates in the party.

    I rarely listen to conservative radio, but when I did occasionally after the 2008 election, I was astounded at the number of conservatives who called in to proudly announce that they did not vote for President or voted for Ron Paul — because McCain, who fought for this country and spent years in a Vietnam prison for doing so, was not a “real Republican.” They were invariably warmly congratulated by the host — not just for voting their ideals for specifically for not voting for McCain.

    Now the economic disaster took his campaign by surprise and no, he did not go negative enough (though if he had, he’d have been accused of being a racist). But the real reason he lost was because the attitude of the callers was encouraged by talk radio, because a lot of conservative money did not want him to win.

    I think there would have been financial reform, had he been President, with some teeth in it. I doubt he would actually have invaded Iran — he has more military experience than President Obama and understands the crucial differences between Iraq and Iran. I doubt we would have ramped up in Afghanistan. We would still have Hillary in the Senate, who could have pushed on domestic issues. With her good relationship with McCain, they might have gotten a lot done.


    • 1539days says:

      Let’s not forget, McCain took government matching funds, which limited his ability to raise money. Then, he refused advertising from a lot of 527s. He proved that his campaaign finance reform legislation was a total crock, because an Obama can come along, break all the rules and win.

      I understand the argument that McCain was a war hero, but so was George Bush Sr. and it didn’t help him against Bill Clinton. Republicans have this suicide streak that makes them vote for the other guy when they get ticked off.

    • Dario says:

      I don’t believe McCain would have been a better president than Obama, but he would not have hurt the chances of the progressives to correct the mistakes of Dubya. Obama has damaged everything liberal. By being a bad president with conservative leanings, he’s given the left a black eye and destroyed the Democratic Party.

      • ralphb says:

        I think McCain would have been a better president than Obama on most counts. I say that because of his long record of being pretty open minded about working across the aisle. I think McCain and a Democratic congress would have worked out pretty well.

      • angienc says:

        I don’t believe McCain would have been a better president than Obama, but he would not have hurt the chances of the progressives to correct the mistakes of Dubya. Obama has damaged everything liberal. By being a bad president with conservative leanings, he’s given the left a black eye and destroyed the Democratic Party.

        Everything you just listed proves that McCain would have been a better POTUS than Obama.

  5. 1539days says:

    I know one thing. With McCain’s one-term pledge, Sarah Palin would be running for president by now.

  6. Dario says:

    Looking back, I think McCain would have been better for the economy in the long run. There would not have been a bad stimulus, and we would have sank into a deeper recession, but the result would have been positive for those who agree with keynesian policies, and by now we would be looking at good stimulus programs that would really help. Instead we got a bad stimulus that was a third tax cut with programs like the clunker and new buyers home credits that were a waste in terms of helping the economy. The Dick’s missteps gave stimulus a bad name and propelled the Milton Friedman (Chicago schools) talking heads to discredit stimulus programs. I voted for SP mostly, but she was running as VP with McCain, so he got my vote too.

    We’re really f***ed.

    • Dario says:

      Also, I don’t believe the voters would have given McCain a GOP congress. The Democrats would be sitting pretty right now, looking at 2012 with Hillary going for the presidency.

      • 1539days says:

        The Tea Party ran on the bailouts, the stimulus and Obamacare. Only one of those was McCain’s fault. Plus, Palin would have no outsider credentials to support candidates in 2010 as VP. I really wish the Obots would think about how they made Sarah Palin and how she made Democrats lose in return.

        • myiq2xu says:

          The Tea Party ran on the bailouts, the stimulus and Obamacare. Only one of those was McCain’s fault.


          Which one was McCain’s fault?

        • Dario says:

          I think that McCain voted for the bailout. I agree. That’s not his fault.

        • DandyTiger says:

          Not his fault per se, but he did make a pathetically big deal about stopping his campaign and voting for the stimulus. From that we can assume he would have pushed for the next ones too.

        • ralphb says:

          I think he voted for the first bailout. If he had been elected I doubt there would have been a porkulus, or it would have been a lot different.

          His seeming panic at the crash did more to kill his election chances than the crash itself I think.

        • 1539days says:

          It’s not entirely his fault, but he tried to trcik Obama with that lame ass campaign suspension thing. He went back to the Senate (where he really wanted to be). and made sure the Republicasn would vote for TARP after voting against it. He holds a lot of blame.

          McCain would have been a better president, but he could never become president. He doesn’t have the will to take on that job. George Bush did and that’s why he beat McCain in the 2000 primaries. It’s rare to find a president with leadership and killer instict to win.

    • ralphb says:

      Yes, we really are hyper-hosed.

  7. ralphb says:

    Great News: Friday’s Anemic Jobs Numbers Are Likely Bogus

    Then there’s another problem with June’s employment report. Included in the 18,000 headline number is a guesstimate that 131,000 jobs were created by newly formed — and, therefore, invisible — companies.

    If you want to send your resume to one of these companies, don’t bother. They probably don’t exist, and neither do the jobs the government thinks they are creating.

    • WMCB says:

      This is lovely as well:

      Look even deeper in the June report and you’ll see something else you really don’t want to know. The more broadly defined U-6 unemployment rate, which includes people who are underemployed, went from 15.8 percent in May to 16.2 percent in June.

      These are workers who want full-time jobs but can’t find them. And the U-6 figure doesn’t even include people who’ve given up looking for work because they believe it’s hopeless.

      So the actual number of people who want work and are either underemployed or unemployed is WELL over 16.2%. Probably in the 20’s.

      • Dario says:

        The Gallup Poll keeps track of that unemployed number, and the BLS also issues it, but rarely is talked about.

    • DandyTiger says:

      You mean it’s worse. And I thought those numbers were really bad.

  8. Dario says:

    How dumb is he?
    The chess player, a.k.a. The Dick, extended the Bush tax cuts. It was against The Dick’s best interest to extend those cuts. Even if he had agreed with his masters to do it to get elected, he should have gone back on his word and do what was best for him, and in the long run what was best for Americans.

    The role of Bush tax cuts in the deficit

    “How did we get into this problem of the big deficit?” Nelson said. “It’s basically a fall-off of revenues and an increase in spending. So you got to correct that imbalance; otherwise you’re not doing real deficit reduction.”

    • DandyTiger says:

      Obama and his team are doing exactly what they mean to be doing. He was installed in his position to do exactly what he’s doing. He’s not making mistakes regarding his interests or anyone else’s interests. It’s all on purpose, and according to plan.

      When you see that, then you see what the plan is. And it ain’t pretty.

    • 1539days says:

      Which Bush tax cuts? Those taxes cut across all tax bracket, including the reduction of the lowest tax bracket from 15% to 10%.

  9. votermom says:

    I voted for McCain/Palin in protest, but I really think McCain would have been an ok POTUS. Better than a lot in recent history, for sure.

  10. votermom says:

    OT: I just got around to watching The Other Guys, and I really like the end credits.

  11. angienc says:

    And Palin as President isn’t something to look at lightly.

    These asshats can’t help themselves. Even when they know they are wrong they still compare Obama with the person in the VP slot.The *actual* comparison is whether Palin would be any worse than Biden right now because MCCAIN IS STILL ALIVE ASSHOLES!

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