Don’t believe everything you hear


**** latest from OccupyWallStreet at A little after 9:00pm tonight, police moved in and used billy clubs and pepper spray on protestors. Several members of the media team were arrested.


It’s hard to tell from the OccupyWallSt videos what exactly sparked the crackdown. But I doubt that the media team had done anything to provoke the kind of action they were subject to. None of the organizers or media team members looked like loaded springs looking for trouble. My best guess is that the NYPD was given the go ahead to clear the park tonight and getting the media team out of the way was the first step.


NYPD cracking heads and pepper spraying protesters under cover of darkness

It figures New York’s “finest” would wait until after dark to break out the mace and nightsticks. This video is from We Are Change. It’s pretty chaotic, but it shows police beating and pepper spraying #OccupyWallStreet protesters. These thugs don’t seem to understand that their Gestapo tactics are having the effect of bringing more media attention to a protest that was largely ignored for a couple of weeks.

Here’s a report from the FOX News reporter who was there:

In the evening, crowds surged past barriers and NYPD officers moved in to contain the protesters. By many accounts, mayhem broke out.

Officers, many wearing white shorts indicating supervisor rank, swatted protesters with batons and sprayed them with mace, video from the scene showed.

Fox 5’s Isen and Brennan were there and witnessed the chaos. At one point, Brennan was hit in the abdomen by a police baton and Isen got irritant in his eyes. Both journalists were all right and continued to cover the protests and arrests.

If you follow the link to the FOX 5 website there is a clip of the reporter who got hit explaining what happened.

The cops set up a barricade at an intersection. The crowd pushed forward. About twenty arrests were made. So far I have seen three different clips (including the one posted above) of the same one officer swinging his baton.

The officer is not advancing, he is standing his ground. He is swinging his baton back and forth about level with the midsections of the people in front of him. No one is getting hit in the head.

There is a metal barricade pushed back behind the officer, and it appears that other officers are kneeling right behind him on the ground making arrests. When the crowd backs up the officer doesn’t move forward.

There are a lot of cops around, but most of them are forming a wall facing the crowd. They are not riot police. In the videos you can hear the cops telling people to back up.

No reporters were arrested. The crowd doesn’t seem afraid, in fact many of them are pushing forward to take pictures.

Here’s a question – what was the crowd trying to do? It was after 9:00 pm and the march held earlier was over.

I looks to me like the protesters were trying to provoke a response and they succeeded.


Behind the scenes in recent days, union leaders have debated how to respond to Occupy Wall Street. In internal discussions, some voiced worries that if labor were perceived as trying to co-opt the movement, it might alienate the protesters and touch off a backlash.

Others said they were wary of being embarrassed by the far-left activists in the group who have repeatedly denounced the United States government.

Those concerns may be renewed after a disturbance about 8 p.m. Wednesday as the march was breaking up. The police said they arrested eight protesters around the intersection of Broadway and Wall Street, after people rushed barriers and began spilling into the street. While a couple of witnesses said that officers used pepper spray to clear the streets, Paul J. Browne, the Police Department’s chief spokesman, said that one officer “possibly” used it. Several protesters were also arrested at State and Bridge Streets at 9:30 p.m.; the police said one protester was charged with assault after an officer was knocked off his scooter.

All those people and all those cameras and nobody saw what started it.

Every one of the protesters appears to have a camera phone. Why aren’t there any clips posted that show the beginning of the disturbance? You would think if there was video showing the cops attacking peaceful protesters without any provocation that it would be posted.

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42 Responses to Don’t believe everything you hear

  1. HT says:

    Have police gotten more brutal lately, or is it just that the media is finally beginning to report it?

    • myiq2xu says:

      That wasn’t brutal. This is brutal:

    • Red Dragon says:

      They’ve gotten more BRUTAL HT. But it seems too many people nowadays find ways to justify the police action. I could see if these young folks did something to justify being smacked around with Night sticks and having Pepper spray squirted in your face but crossing a barrier?

      Just reading the comments on many blogs have convinced me that FOX/CNN/MSNBC have done their job well. The Sheep will stay pacified!…Oh and the new narrative that is now being tossed about….”The UNIONS Caused this. It’s a conspiracy!!!! As soon as the UNIONS got involved, the police had no choice but to crack heads!”

      Stick around HT…The always blame the UNIONS!

      • myiq2xu says:

        What should the cops have done when a crowd of people tried to cross the barrier?

        • Red Dragon says:

          I hear you Myiq. Really I do. I wasn’t there. I only go by what I was watching on the live feed last night. To me…and I know it’s only MY eyes..But it seemed as though they were “Peacefully” trying to cross the barrier. Now was it smart to do so? No but the response was heavy handed.

          Then there is this from earlier that night….


          I suppose this cop telling the camera man what he and his “Little friend” were anticipating was also “Justified?”

          Either way…The Unions will be blamed for this.

        • Red Dragon says:

          sorry…didn’t embed properly….

        • votermom says:

          I fixed it. To embed, just put in the youtube url with the watch= part
          no code needed

        • myiq2xu says:

          But it seemed as though they were “Peacefully” trying to cross the barrier.

          Have you seen any video of them trying to cross the barrier? I haven’t seen any.

          All those cameras there and for some reason no video of that.

          What happened in the five minutes prior to the arrests?

        • Karma says:

          To be fair, that cop and that camera man looked like a couple of a jerks squaring up for later. The camera man wasn’t some passive dude as his tone made clear. You can’t be so naive as to believe that provoking the cops isn’t a goal as well as getting arrested.

          Sorry but I view these on a case-by-case basis. Not all cops are brutal and not all protesters are of pure intention.

          Do I believe that something changed after 9/11? Yes, and that is why electing someone other than Obama was vital. But I won’t automatically assume the cops are brutal because an Obot said so.

        • Unroll a stronger barrier.

  2. Mimi says:

    Yesterday was an astonishingly bad day for the WH. The drip of emails showing collusion between Obama’s top in house advisers, campaign bundlers, OMB analysts, and the DOE in Solyndra. Earlier in the day Daryl Issa politely called the U S Attorney General a liar because of his testimony earlier in the year. Issa’s committee now has briefing books written by Holder’s chief of staff who when not racking up brownie points in government service is an revered white collar criminal defense lawyer. The DOJ floated the idea that perhaps Holder did not understand a congressional committee’s questions and he did not read his briefing notes written by his COS.

    Late yesterday the Republicans told the WH they want EVERYTHING on Solyndra by October 14. They also want a special prosecutor for Holder.

    Hours after this shit hit the fan, confrontations with the police begin in NYC after weeks of peaceful if chaotic demonstrations. There are two ruinous scandals coming to a point in which they cannot be ignored. Diversion is one of the strategies that can be used by a WH that is daily more and more unpopular.

    • Mary says:

      Yes, and this is the week the unions joined the Wall Street protests in “solidarity.”


  3. This has been posted on the FB page last night at the time of the march (which we left way earlier)

    “Remember, This movement is based on civil disobedience. Do not get penned up today. Do not be forced on the sidewalk. Take the streets, sit down, Disrupt traffic, be brave….Some advice from Naomi Klein..please protesters, I can’t say this enough: “DO NOT MARCH. SIT DOWN or stand with linked arms. DO NOT JUST MARCH. I have studied protests for the last fifty years — the ones that ended in state violence (they always win) are short and they MARCH. the ones that brought down regimes are LONG and STOP TRAFFIC and involve SITTING DOWN OR STANDING STILL WITH LINKED ARMS. They take patience.” This is our moment. We are growing because we are resisting.”

    • Mimi says:

      It was posted last night? Not yesterday morning or afternoon but after committee chairman Stearns asked for ALL WH emails since inauguration on Solyndra late yesterday afternoon. Coincidence maybe but I don’t think so.

      • myiq2xu says:

        This was planned well in advance.

        • Mimi says:

          Planned and deployed as necessary. Yesterday made it necessary. Yikes.

        • Mary says:

          Yep. The real question is what will Mayor Bloomberg do about it? Does he get thrown under the bus, too?

        • Mimi says:

          Most definitely Bloomberg gets run over. Anyone not named Barack, Michelle, or Valerie is a potential bus accident casualty. It is school bus pin ball.

        • Mary says:

          Jaysys, Mimi. These people really are capable of anything.

          Getting harder and harder to figure out who the “brownshirts” really are, nowadays.

        • Red Dragon says:

          Everyday Union Members compared to “Brownshirts?”…Bet if these were “Tea-Partiers” the tune being sung would be much different!

        • myiq2xu says:

          How many Tea Partiers have tried to rush a police barricade? How many have engaged in civil disobedience?

        • Red Dragon says:


          My point is that “Civil Disobedience” is what FOUNDED this country.

          You simply can’t applaud one group of people and denounce another for voicing their grievances.

          Did these young people er in trying to cross the barrier? Maybe if you use the Civil Disobedience excuse then you could then apply that same to the Tea partiers and their outrageous vocal shenanigans at the town hall meetings.

          I am not comparing the two MYiq…The argument I am making is this:

          The First Amendment of the United States Constitution protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression from government interference. See U.S. Const. amend. I. Freedom of expression consists of the rights to freedom of speech, press, assembly and to petition the government for a redress of grievances, and the implied rights of association and belief. The Supreme Court interprets the extent of the protection afforded to these rights. The First Amendment has been interpreted by the Court as applying to the entire federal government even though it is only expressly applicable to Congress. Furthermore, the Court has interpreted, the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment as protecting the rights in the First Amendment from interference by state governments. See U.S. Const. amend. XIV.

          It works with the right of assembly by allowing people to join together and seek change from the government.

          • myiq2xu says:


            Public Sidewalks

            Sidewalk, streets, and parks are what are known as traditional forums and “have immemorially been held in trust for the use of the public, and time out of mind, have been used for purposes of assembly, communicating thoughts between citizens, and discussing public questions.” Hague v. CIO, 307 U.S. 496, 515 (1939). The government cannot deny the public access to a traditional public forum nor can it regulate use of the forum based on the content of one’s speech. Perry Education Ass’n v. Perry Local Educators’ Ass’n, 460 U.S. 37, 45 (1983). However, the government is permitted to impose “reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions” within a public forum so long as the regulations are “narrowly tailored to serve a significant government interest, and leave open ample alternative channels of communication.” Id. In short, the government may set reasonable rules in a public forum, those rules can be no more expansive than is necessary to accomplish the government’s purpose and such rules can not be used to completely deny access to the traditional public forum.

            Thus, the government may be able to prevent protesters from completely blocking a thoroughfare to traffic, such as a street or sidewalk, but cannot curtail any more speech than is necessary to accomplish that goal. Similarly, government can regulate use of sound amplification equipment, such as limiting the decibel level and requiring a permit, but would normally not be able to bar use of amplification equipment entirely. Ward v. Rock Against Racism, 491 U.S. 781 (1989).

            While certain basic free speech activity is almost always permissible in a traditional public forum, such as leafleting or protests involving a small number of people, it is generally advisable to check applicable regulations before hand. For instance, sound amplification equipment will often require a permit as might a demonstration involving a large number of people. To find out what regulations exist you should contact the municipality where you intend to demonstrate.

            Public Roadways

            As noted above, public streets are traditional public forums and therefore are open for expressive purposes such as marches. Of course, public streets are also used for cars, buses, and other vehicles. Therefore, municipalities usually impose reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions on the use of streets for speech purposes. These regulations generally involve a permit requirement, advance notice, time limitations, and some sort of police presence to close the street or a portion of the street to traffic during the march. Many municipalities try to also impose an insurance requirement to indemnify the city. Insurance requirements to use a traditional public forum are almost always unconstitutional. Municipalities are, however, allowed to charge a nominal fee to cover the cost of processing permit applications.

            If you choose to ignore reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions and block traffic on public thoroughfares you can be arrested (or at the very least ticketed). There is nothing unconstitutional about the enforcement of generally applicable laws so long as the are enforced equally and not on the basis of the speaker’s message. Indeed, equality under the law requires that generally applicable laws be enforced uniformly even if the violators believe they had a good purpose for their action.

            Civil Disobedience
            Individuals can, of course, be prosecuted for breaking generally applicable content neutral laws, such as trespass and disturbing the peace, even if they do so for expressive purposes. This is a different situation than where individuals break laws because they consider the laws themselves to be unconstitutional or otherwise illegal (e.g. sitting at a segregated lunch counter). In many of this latter category of civil disobedience cases an individual’s actions can be defended based on the argument that the law the individual broke was itself illegal.
            As for the former category of cases, the motive for breaking the law is irrelevant to whether the individual is punished.

            If you think a cause is worth breaking the law for then by all means go for it. Our founding fathers thought their cause was worth killing and dying for.

            But if you intentionally break the law, don’t complain when you get arrested.

            Read up on the Shays and Whiskey rebellions. Even the founding fathers were willing to use force to enforce the law.

        • WMCB says:

          RedDragon, I lost my patience with the unions when they did all their thuggery in Vegas on Obama’s behalf. I lost my patience further when the Teamsters recently were breaking up businesses, burning stuff, and assaulting people. I lost my patience when they began to harass and intimidate both the businesses and the employees of those businesses because the employees had committed the great crime of freely choosing not to be unionized.

          Do I think unions in concept are bad? Nope. Do I think all union members are thugs? Nope. But I will no more be blindly knee-jerk loyal to them than I will the police. I call each individual incident as I see it. I do not assume “union = good guys” anymore. Nor do I always assume “police= good guys”. If you think that today’s unions are just poor oppressed little guys, and not a very big, very powerful, very profitable part of the power structure itself, then you have been living in a time warp stuck in 1942.

        • Three Wickets says:

          There may be some fuzzy line between civil disobedience/protesting and deliberately provoking action from police to generate viral media. Not aware of tea partiers favoring the latter tactic, and not saying the OWS crowd is either. But all it takes is one cell phone camera and one motivated provocateur to create an OMG clip for MSNBC primetime.

    • myiq2xu says:


      Civil Disobedience

      Individuals can, of course, be prosecuted for breaking generally applicable content neutral laws, such as trespass and disturbing the peace, even if they do so for expressive purposes.

  4. WMCB says:

    Several of us predicted that it would turn ugly about the time the unions showed up. Sorry, but unions in this country have become little more than hired muscle and deliberate provocateurs for the Obama administration and the Democratic Party. I’ve about had it with them.

    And no, I don’t think the cops as a whole acted brutally or excessively. Every account I have seen says that the officers repeatedly tried to get the crowd to move back, and the crowd kept surging past the barriers. This was geared to provoke a confrontation. Short of backing up and allowing the crowd to roll right over them, what are they supposed to do? Yeah, they were swinging batons, but in a very controlled manner – not chasing after people to “beat them down”. And frankly, I would not want to be in the shoes of the cops trying to maintain some kind of public order and keep the streets and the roads open in this mess. Yes, there is a right to free speech. But as the old saying goes, your liberty ends where my nose begins. Blocking and preventing other ordinary citizens from carrying on their daily lives is not protected “speech”.

    There are two groups that Obama cannot lose, or he’s sunk. Both those groups, while still likely to vote for him, are apathetic and not enthused about GOTV. Those two groups are 1) blacks and 2) the youth

    Funny how both groups that he needs energized are suddenly getting deliberately “riled up” out of their apathy.

    I am not saying that many of the young people there are not sincere. But I think they are being used for agitprop, and are falling for it hook line and sinker. And the “professionals” who have shown up over the past day or so would like nothing better than for one of those kids to get hurt.

  5. WMCB says:

    My question to those who want to see the police here as thugs beating on poor innocent protestors is:

    If the police are legally trying to contain a crowd, and the crowd keeps surging forward to overrun them, what, in your opinion, is the appropriate response?

    Please tell me what the police are supposed to do in that situation, and still fulfill their duty of clearing that sidewalk or roadway that the rest of the citizenry is being prevented from using.

    • Mimi says:

      If orders are going out via social media to ignore laws and engage law enforcement, the NYPD and Bloomberg need to call them on it immediately. They need to use their anti-terrorism cops to put a stop to it. Otherwise it may seem as if the mayor’s office and the cop shop are in on it, which I do not think they are.

    • Mary says:

      Or clearing the Brooklyn Bridge that day. Demonstrators were clearly and calmly told they could walk the pedestrian walks, but could not block the entire width of the road.

      Suddenly, a few of the people in front of the crowd locked arms and yelled “Take the bridge!”, and marched forward.

      The demonstrators gave those cops no other choice, really.

      Contrary to Jeralynn and RD, cops are not always the bad guys, folks.

    • myiq2xu says:

      They aren’t going to answer your question.

    • votermom says:

      They want to see the cops join the march.

  6. Three Wickets says:

    Random. Most Obots have the emotional intelligence of a spoiled 14 year old.

  7. yttik says:

    Again, I can’t help but notice how privileged and white and inexperienced these people are. Heck, even in liberal utopia, Seattle, you risk getting pepper sprayed and tazed and that’s just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You don’t even have to part of protest, just try walking down the wrong street.

  8. Mary says:

    Herman Cain:

    “These demonstrations are planned and orchestrated to distract from the failed policies of the Obama administration.”

    Uh, yeah. Plain as the nose on your face.

  9. The Penguin says:

    If the cops pulled back and let the protesters run wild, they would be getting blamed (and probably sued) for not doing anything to stop them.

  10. Three Wickets says:

    Is RD camping overnight. Nights are getting cold.

  11. myiq2xu says:

    Legal Insurrection:

    As they tearfully mourn the loss of Steve Jobs, how many will wonder why Jobs was so against unions, and fought a long battle to keep unions out of Apple? As they tweet the revolution from their iPhones and iPads, how many will realize that these devices may not ever have come into being but for Apple’s fight against some of the very unions marching along side them?

    • yttik says:

      We’re a nation that’s been very successfully brainwashed into believing that Republicans are the rich and Democrats are the poor. Unions are Democrats. The evil employers are Republicans. It’s a very black and white world that doesn’t allow for any diversion of thought. They will lie to themselves to make the narrative true, so that the guy who just got elected with all those wall street donations, is actually a poor black man raised on food stamps.

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