I assume that the 53% “movement” is actually more of a mockery of the idea that 99% of people with lower incomes are a unified coalition. That 99% (or 1% dilettantes who claim to side with the 99%) OWS types take them seriously is kind of sad.
53% refers to the people who pay federal income taxes, as opposed to those who have income or exemptions that leave them with no tax obligation. That number changes from year to year, but it more than half. Ironically, some liberals give the counter example that the poor actually pay more taxes because of sales tax and withholding taxes like Social Security. Conservatives have considered Social Security a tax for years, while supporters have claimed it was a defined benefit plan. Which is it?
Taxing the rich to pay for the poor is an even-handed idea. It brings to mind the “sin taxes” on cigarettes and alcohol. Tobacco taxes should exist to pay for the results of smoking on the state. Instead, the money is frequently used to augment the general fund. When these activities lessen due to high taxes. the state finds itself at a loss for revenue.
Higher taxes on the highest incomes only relieves the total federal debt. The deficit will still be well above $0, even if the tax rate is 100%. That means any imagined spending from a millionaire tax windfall is not possible. If we spend any more, it will be through the selling of treasuries. It turns out that OWS are a bunch of deficit hawks after all.
The Crawdad Hole 
further job cuts and less investment in the USA.
Looks like OWS is getting what they want, now what is the plan?
http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre79c3vv-us-usa-economy-jobs-corporate/
that’s depressing news. My daughter is working on a business plan to start her own pr co. in S. Florida.. she would be great at it, but the econ. is so bad here. An entire generation is lost because of stupid decisions at the top.
If the tax rate were 100% of national income, that would be $13 trillion in revenue set off against current run rate $3.7 trillion annual spend, which would result in a $9.3 trillion surplus (not deficit) and effectively erase 2/3 of the national debt. Not a relevant hypothetical imho.
Having trouble following the post Days, but it’s late and I’m nodding off. Will take a fresh look tomorrow. 🙂
Well, I can’t really do anything with that without a source. $13 trillion is as much as the gross national product
I usually think of national income pretty much equaling national output, in aggregate at least.
Also our federal tax receipts average around 18% of GDP (or aggregate national income), so quite a big difference from hypothetical 100% tax rate. Since 2008 though, our federal receipts have dropped to as low as 15% of GDP (or aggregate national income), that’s because of the tax cuts in the original stimulus, then later in 2010 with the payroll tax cuts, small business tax credits, estate tax cuts, extension of Bush tax cuts. Republicans like tax cuts, though they do contribute to deficits and debt.
Okay. Let’s try this. Using this census link (seen at wikipedia), The top 3.65% (200K and above) earned 17.5% of all income in 2007.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/macro/032008/hhinc/new06_000.htm
Data from the U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis says that the total personal income in 2007 was approximately $12 trillion. http://bber.unm.edu/econ/us-tpi.htm
That comes out to 2.1 trillion, which is about equal to the deficit. But, that would double count the income tax currently paid by the higher income bracket. Now, I didn’t mention wealth confiscation, which would pay off part of the national debt. It would also be unconstitutional and lead to a massive flight of anyone with assets.
We currently have 7 small businesses up on the auction block in my dinky community, every single one because of back taxes. It’s heart breaking. The last one to go down had 35 employees, pregnant women, single mothers, people who were living paycheck to paycheck and depended of their jobs. That’s the real story of what taxes do. They shut down small businesses.
At the moment we also have 17 homes being auctioned off because of back taxes. That’s also the story of what taxes do.
None of these people are wealthy, none of them are corporations, they’re simply working people who fell behind. They couldn’t afford their sales tax, their property tax, their payroll tax, their business and occupations tax. They put their taxes off for year and the economy took a downswing so they put off the next years taxes, too. By the time they hit the third year, the bills were simply too big and the government stepped in and took everything they had.
These are the people who get hurt by taxes. Not corporations, not the wealthy, but those who are actually working in our communities, creating businesses, providing jobs, owning homes.
If I lose my home (which i have been trying to rent or sell since may) it will be because of the property taxes, which go up every year even as the house has lost 1/3 of its value since I bought it. thank god my credit score didn’t follow me over here.
Where is their bailout?
😦
When I escaped from my former tribe (long before 2008), I came to realize that the Democrats have a vested interest in keeping a part of society in poverty. Since most poor people vote for Democrats, to raise the standard of living for them could severely cut into the party’s power. Many of the programs that the Democrats tout as helping poor people become less poor stack the deck against that happening. I listen to my “reduced and free lunch” students talk about what helps their families survive vs.what makes them thrive all of the time. A lot of one and very little of the other. If acquiring property and wealth is more likely to turn someone into a Republican, it would seem to follow that the Republicans would want more people to “think and grow rich”, but somehow they seem to be working harder to concentrate wealth into the hands of fewer people. Their ticket to power without “sharing the wealth” is to attract conservative voters by appearing to share their views on social issues whether they actually do or not (see Romney et.al.) and appealing to the voters who would rather fancy themselves more akin to that top 1% than to the 47% who pay no taxes. Neither party really has a vested interest in creating fewer poor people.
Which plays into decisions about how much we tax the rich and the middle class to help the poor. Just enough, but not a penny more.
Once you get beyond all the arguments about fairness (not that they aren’t valid arguments), the cold hard reality is that we need a broader tax base and/or significant spending cuts, or we are fucked.
Yes, we can take some more from the wealthy, and should. But anyone who thinks raising the upper rates is going to magically solve this problem is smoking crack. There are not that many rich people. “The rich people’s stash” is as much a fairytale as “Obama’s stash” was. We could confiscate it all and it would barely make a dent.
Jobs are THE priority. Any other issue is secondary to that. We need more taxpayers, period.
didn’t they just run the ows bunch out of town in San Francisco right before nancy came home? Maybe they were not good tippers
Now they want a mandatory 25% tip when you eat out
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/10/13/san-francisco-restaurants-want-to-make-25-standard-tip-rate/
I have worked on tips and I think that is absurd. Oh, I forgot we are doing away with incentives for doing a good job. Silly me. My poor server studied acting and hasn’t gotten a break so I should be happy to leave a very large gratuity. Doesn’t matter that my glass was empty while he was gone for ten minutes to catch a smoke.
i do, however, think restaurants should pay more than 2.83 an hour.
Logic is also ass backwards when saying in a down economey they should be tipped more. If people are reluctant to dine out in bad times wouldn’t they eat out less if an additional 10% was added to the bill? each time
Minimum wage should at least apply to everyone, including servers. It should also apply to those people in American Samoa who work in Nancy Pelosi’s husband’s factories and were excepted from minimum wage laws by the TARP bill in 2008.
I find service is better in places around the world where there is no tipping. Best service in the world, Japan. If you try tipping someone there, they will take insult. They also have minimum wages and fair pay.
They really haven’t thought through this tax demand. The government does so much that people disapprove of with the revenue it takes in: war, illegal wiretapping, espionage, Guantanamo Bay, secret prisons, etc. Well, what do you think the government is going to do with more money?
do you think if buffet paid his back tax debt it would help? still owes 1 billion in taxes from the years 2002 to 2009
http://biggovernment.com/sright/2011/10/13/surprise-warren-buffetts-company-has-1-billion-federal-tax-obligation/#more-350992
for all you verizon users. they are going to start monitoring what websites you go to while on line
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/verizon-soon-begin-spying-habits-opt-231705272.html
Thanks for the heads up!
Yeah, I know it’s VDH. But he’s right. Obama has outright killed over 5 times as many “terrorists” as Bush did, and civilians alongside them. He’s done it quietly and with impunity, because the press will never ever ever call him a bloody warmonger, and neither will the hypocritical Left.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/279963/predator-chief-victor-davis-hanson
Anyone seen a whole lot of outrageous outrage over this, at these protests by “the Left” who were formerly so passionately grieved and angry and appalled about imprisoning, much less killing, people who had neither directly attacked us nor been charged with any crime?
Yeah, me neither.
The silence is deafening. And tells me a hell of a lot about what they are really all about. It ain’t peace and it ain’t civil liberties. It’s whatever drumbeat is convenient to ensure power for people just like me and of my tribe.
Fuck ’em all. Moral cowards, liars and hypocrites. Want to know why I am so critical, why I seem to look with more and more of a jaundiced eye at every word out of the Left’s mouth?
THIS. This is why.
You know what’s worse than killer drones?
THEY ARE TAKING AWAY OUR SLEEPING BAGS!
OMG. I have to tweet that.
😆