The Long Run: How the Mormon Church Shaped Mitt Romney


Jodi Kantor in the New York Times:

Romney’s Faith, Silent but Deep

When Mitt Romney embarked on his first political race in 1994, he also slipped into a humble new role in the Mormon congregation he once led. On Sunday mornings, he stood in the sunlit chapel here teaching Bible classes for adults.

Leading students through stories about Jesus and the Nephite and Lamanite tribes, who Mormons believe once populated the Americas, and tossing out peanut butter cups as rewards, Mr. Romney always returned to the same question: how could students apply the lessons of Mormon scripture in their daily lives?

Now, as the presumptive Republican nominee for president, Mr. Romney speaks so sparingly about his faith — he and his aides frequently stipulate that he does not impose his beliefs on others — that its influence on him can be difficult to detect.

But dozens of the candidate’s friends, fellow church members and relatives describe a man whose faith is his design for living. The church is by no means his only influence, and its impact cannot be fully untangled from that of his family, which is also steeped in Mormonism.


Okay, fair is fair – When is the NYT gonna do a story about how Rev. Wright’s Trinity United Church shaped Barack Obama?


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124 Responses to The Long Run: How the Mormon Church Shaped Mitt Romney

  1. DandyTiger says:

    When is the NYT gonna do a story about how Rev. Wright’s Trinity United Church shaped Barack Obama?

    Ha, good one. Um, never. Or if they do something, it will be a twisted but positive spin.

  2. wmcb says:

    This is why it’s laughable that Roland Martin and Bashir took to the airwaves this week to “threaten” that if Wright was brought up, Mormonism would be also. LOL! Yeah, like they aren’t going to do that anyway, and in fact, had already been doing it even as they made the threat.

    For all the bloviating I have constantly heard over the past few years on the left about how “evangelicals will never vote for a Mormon, those bigotty bigots!” it has been very clear that the ones who are the bigots are the left. Polls repeatedly show that many more Democrats say they will never vote for a Mormon than any other group. Very few on the right ever brought up Mitt’s religion – even during a hotly contested primary. It was like, one pastor, who got roundly booed by most R’s. Most evangelicals I saw said, “I think his religion is nuts, but what does that have to do with anything?”

    Want to see a bigot? Look in the mirror, progs. Because it ain’t the right who is obsessed with Mitt’s religion.

  3. wmcb says:

    Althouse is covering this, and one comment by “george” struck me.

    The thing I was most struck by is how the NY Times reports that a religious couple, Mormons in this case, think they will be together in the afterlife and it strengthens their bond as if this is somehow news to its readers. You always get this anthropological perspective when the Times deigns to cover the religion of someone on the right, or when they talk about southerners.

    For people who are supposed to be so worldly they sure don’t seem to get out much.

    I agree about the “anthropological perspective”. The Times and others on the left may be surprised to discover that items that they put out there, expecting the public to share their “Ewww, isn’t that creepy and weird?” gut reaction, may provoke an entirely different reaction. Most people in the country have no problem whatsoever with the idea of marriage being an eternal relationship – they themselves may find it comforting and enriching. I know that my grandmother, on her deathbed, was very happy to be “going to join” my grandfather.

    Contrary to what the NYT seems to think, this is not a “weird” concept to most Americans.

    • myiq2xu says:

      And they consider themselves better informed than everyone else.

    • DandyTiger says:

      They definitely need to get out more. They are one of the most isolated groups I’ve ever seen (north east, limousine type progs). I know people in the sticks of WV that are less isolated. I shit you not.

      • wmcb says:

        I know people in the sticks of WV that are less isolated. I shit you not.

        That’s because the only “diversity” they recognize is skin color. They carefully cull their isolated little group for any other kind of diversity. Diversity of thought, diversity of class, diversity of politics, diversity of education level, diversity of actual practicing religion, all the other kinds of diversity in the world are carefully filtered out.

        So they end up surrounded with people who are exactly like themselves, give or take a little melanin.

        • myiq2xu says:

          There is an urban myth (literally) that people in rural areas are inbred, uneducated and unsophisticated.

          Rural people have books, schools, electricity, televisions and satellite dishes these days. They even use computers to surf the internet!

  4. wmcb says:

    Oh, and another thing that may backfire on the left attacking Mormonism, is that I see a LOT of this online. A LOT. Here’s what another Althouse commenter had to say:

    I grew up as an agnostic and went to school with lots of Mormons. They were probably about 10-15% of the folks I knew. They were also, as a group, the kindest, most generous, hardest working folks I knew. They weren’t all perfect, and many individuals in other religious/ethnic groups were outstanding as well, but as I said, I grew up with Mormons, and my estimation is: good folks.

    Most people I know who have had significant contact with Mormons have a similar view. It’s going to be really hard to demonize a group of people who are overall so fundamentally and demonstrably nice in their daily interactions, whatever you think of their written woo woo beliefs.

    • wmcb says:

      As a matter of fact, among the stricter conservative religions, I daresay that I’d rather deal with a Mormon in daily life than a fundie. Orthodox Jews would run second, in my mind. Even their “proselytizing” is usually along the gentle lines of “May I discuss this with you if you are interested?”, not “REPENT, you filthy sinner!”

    • angienc says:

      Although I would estimate my contact with Mormons at less than 10% (probably about 5%) I do have to say I agree with that assessment of Mormons as a group. It has happened to me more than once that I have remarked about someone how “unbelievably nice” he/she was (compared to the usual a–holes I meet in my daily work) & found out later he/she was Mormon.

  5. 1539days says:

    Famous Mormons include Mitt Romney, Rick Schroeder, Harry Reid, Glenn Beck and Twilight author Stephanie Myers. Gee, it seems like Mormons aren’t monolithic. Now, a group of people who vote 95% for Democrats in every election might be considered monolithic.

  6. angienc says:

    I read the entire piece last night and while it may play in NYC the way it is intended (I like the comment WMCB brought over by “george” at Atlhouse — the people who don’t get out much) I don’t think it will for people who know anything about religion. OMG! Mormons believe in the sanctity of marriage & an afterlife where they will be with loved ones! Can you believe they try to live their lives asking WWJD and praying for God’s guidance (not even for specific things, but for wisdom and strength even*)! Horror of horrors — Mormons believe your life should be filled with good works and public service! The Times obviously doesn’t know this, but that piece does more to assuage Evangelical doubts about Romney than anything he could have said himself.

    Sure, it was meant to be a hit piece — the context of all those things I list above is supposed to be ridiculed by the “sophisticated” reader who eschews religion as morphine for the peons. And of course, there is the inclusion (without a date given for when the incident happened) of a story about a couple who wanted to adopt but both worked (which is something LDS did not allow at the time — and again, the date was not given, although it is noted LDS revised its policy on this point — again, no date given). Romney helped them go through another agency and sat down with them to help them budget their expenses to become a one-income family. The couple today is very happy with their decision & grateful to Romney for his help. Now, of everything in the piece, that one incident seems pretty bad to me, about LDS though, not Romney. And, as I said, I don’t know if this happened in the 1970s (when, btw, women in LA were not even allowed to serve on juries until 1976) or what, so I wasn’t too bothered by it since it is no longer LDS policy.

    Overall, as I read the piece myself, as someone who is not overly-religious in my daily life but who isn’t completely ignorant of faith (as the author of the piece must be) I thought Romney came off extremely well. Especially with Rev. Wright in the back of my mind & Obama’s religious opportunism (example, using Christianity to justify his evolving on SSM — dude, just say all people in this country should be allowed to marry whomever they choose and leave religion out of it).

    *Seriously, does the author of the piece not realize that you are not supposed to pray for specific things, like a car, but for guidance, exactly as Romney does? A person with that kind of basic misunderstanding or prayer and/or child-like view of God as Santa Claus really should STFU about religion.

    • DandyTiger says:

      I suspect like almost every move from the DNC/Oland we’ve seen, this too will backfire. Amateurs.

    • wmcb says:

      Most Christian religions view the value of prayer more for its effect on you than its effect on God. Anyone remotely familiar with Christianity or Mormonism understands that.

      And BTW, almost all American Christian religious sects were at one time in history “not real Christians” because they departed from the accepted norm. From the Shakers to the Methodists to the AnaBaptists to many more who fled here from Europe, because they were the “weird cult” of the time.

      Which is why we enshrined religious freedom in our constitution. The primary (though not the only) motivation for doing that was not, as so many believe, to protect the govt from the church. It was to protect all these persecuted sects from the govt. The fucking PASTORS were the ones who pushed so hard to include the establishment clause – not the deists and atheists.

      • angienc says:

        almost all American Christian religious sects were at one time in history “not real Christians” because they departed from the accepted norm.

        Yes! As a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church, we even joke that when Rome & Constantinople split during the Great Schism of 1054, the Roman Catholics became the “first protestant” religion. 🙂

        I think the Left is really misguided in their attacks on Mormonism. Sure, it isn’t the norm, but people in this country are more apt to think “none of my business” because of the very principles upon which this country is founded — it really is part of our collective consciousness that people are free to practice whatever religion they want. Attacking Romney’s can only backfire.

    • myiq2xu says:

      Did they ever ask Obama if he believes in the virgin birth and the resurrection? What about speaking in tongues and the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?

      Does he believe the Bible is the Word of God?

    • The author is Lori Kantor, who wrote a love-fest book about Michelle & Barry (published January 2012) and who was hired as the NYT Arts & Leisure editor at the tender age of 27. She’s been an Obama campaign insider since 2007. She’s also a NYer and a NYC fan through and through and she is representing her brand in this article–her phony, authoritarian, progressive point of view, represented by the most racially segregated city in America, and the one with the worst class problems in the country, too. All the divides are biggest in the Big Apple. The city sold on lies, just like so much of progressive ideology.

      • wmcb says:

        That’s one of the funniest things about the progs to me, Lola. Where they hold sway, society is segregated. Big cities are MASSIVELY segregated. And the big name black lawyers and politicians who fight so hard for “public education” don’t send ANY of their kids to those schools, nor do they live in those neighborhoods. That’s for the hoi polloi – their kids go to private schools. DC is a joke. Hugely segregated.

        You wanna know the most truly integrated segment of America? The suburbs, and small to mid-size cities, and the rural areas. They may not have the numbers of the vaunted “diversity” that the big cities have, but the “diversity” that exists lives side by side, attends the same schools, works the same factory, shops at the same WalMart, cheers for the same sports teams.

        I grew up around more black people, and socialized with more black people, in “redneck” SC than half of those east coast pontificators have ever seen except in passing or at a planned NAACP event.

      • wmcb says:

        Reminds me of a funny story. I had a friend who moved from Connecticut to SC. She had always viewed herself as very very liberal and egalitarian. She got to the lowcountry of SC, (about 40% black) and was in for a culture shock. I will never forget her discomfort, and her widened eyes as she confessed to me, “But…… they’re everywhere!” I laughed my ass off.

        See, it was really easy for her to pontificate on race in lily white CT, or in upstate NY where she went to school. But now she was in an environment where she was not just exposed to a few uber-educated black professors and upper-echelon blacks on the cocktail circuit. She was surrounded by real, nitty gritty, low-to-middle-class black people. And it freaked her the fuck out.

        But I, a southerner who grew up and moved easily in that same environment that was freaking her out, would be seen automatically as at least insensitive (if not outright a closet bigot), by her northern east coast liberal friends. I mean, everyone knows that southerners are uncomfortable with black people, right?

        These people need to get out more. They haven’t a clue.

        • Does not surprise me at all. I had heard all the arguments about east coast and New England racism, but they didn’t really sink in until I saw it in action myself. Traveling throughout Massachusetts & New York with my daughter in 2010 was a real eye opener for both of us. The racism and segregation were so self-evident, and so was the hostility emanating from blacks for whites (and apathy from whites for blacks, or worse, a sort of parental attitude). I never felt so uncomfortable as a minority white before.

        • angienc says:

          Same thing happened to me. I went to undergrad at SMU in Dallas (in the middle of the affluent South Park area of the city, which was lily-white, btw) and my roommate was from an affluent Boston suburb. She remarked, more than once, how “racist” Southerners were and had a generally superior attitude towards us hicks (why I was friends with her other than to keep the peace in my dorm room, I chalk up to my youth & stupidity, but other than that stuff she was OK). Anyway, at Mardi Gras time she came home with me to NOLA (65% black and about as opposite of segregated as you can get) and she was horrified — scared anytime a black person was on the sidewalk with us (which was all the time), uncomfortable standing next to a black family on the parade route, etc. Her fear & discomfort were so obvious, I wanted to slap her. We’re standing next to a nice family, mom, dad, grandmother & their children at a parade– they aren’t thugs, for the love of God! It was as if she had never actually seen a black person before; meanwhile, “racist Southern me” grew up living next door to & went to school with black people of the same socio-economic class as myself (there is a wide range of economic classes of black people in NOLA), had black teachers, doctors, lawyers, city had black mayors, etc.* Of course, she whispered to me that first night as we went to sleep in my room “How do you live here? There are so many of them!” I told her “Well, we’re all racist.” She STFU & didn’t ever mention how racists Southerners were again (at least not in front of me).
          She transferred to UMass after freshman year, btw.

          *Another reason I wasn’t all gaga over Obama — I actually have seen many, many affluent, well-educated, truly sophisticated black people growing up in NOLA, so he wasn’t the “novelty” to me as he was to so many of those NE elitist snobs for whom Obama was their “first” exposure to an “articulate” black man. Truthfully, compared to the black people I grew up with, he’s pretty sub-par on all counts.

          • Oswald says:

            Even during segregation whites and blacks lived in close proximity to each other in the south. Black women were nannies and domestic workers, black men were gardeners, drivers and maintenance men. Society was stratified but not separated.

            I remember one author saying the difference between north and south was down south blacks could get close but not too big while up north they could get big but not too close.

        • wmcb says:

          Oswald, a black lady I used to work with had family in Chicago, and had lived both there and SC. She told me once that the reason why she preferred SC was because “Both places have about the same amount of racists. But at least in SC you know who they are, and can avoid them. In Chicago, they’ll smile in your face and say all the right words, and be just as racist as they wanna be.”

        • DandyTiger says:

          I’ve had similar experiences. Where I grew in rural VA there was much more diversity than I’ve experienced outside of the south. When I moved to the bay area in CA, I was stunned and amazed at how segregated and how white many prog areas were. And similar to what you said, how really uncomfortable most prog white types I met there were around middle and lower class blacks.

        • Oswald says:

          Helluva difference between Palo Alto and East Palo Alto, isn’t there?

        • DandyTiger says:

          Sure is. Talk about segregation.

  7. cj says:

    I don’t know, is Mormonism any more “out there” than any other religion? From a woman on Mars perspective, they’re all a little bit nutty and a whole lot sexist…but I do like the pageantry.

    I’m surprised The Times opened the door. Obama’s got a lot more vulnerabilty on the issue than Mitt.

    • DandyTiger says:

      They feel safe opening any door including dogs, religion, past, bullying, etc. Because in their mind you can only criticize Romney. Any criticism of Obama is by definition racism in their minds, so they can’t fathom anyone doing it. After all, McCain never did.

      Sadly for them, even with evidence to the contrary as we’ve seen hasn’t really sunk in. By the way, did you know Obama eats dogs.

      • cj says:

        lol, don’t you love it when their attacks turn into fodder for our amusement. I never had so much fun in an election year. 🙂

        • jeffhas says:

          Isn’t it just CRAZY? I mean the world and our nation death spiral economically, we’re on the precipice of chaos – I have very little faith that whoever wins the next election will resolve to any consequence the impending doom… and yet, I am deliciously enjoying every minute of this nit-pic-worm-turning that is going on in this race. Maybe it’s just that I have no dog in this fight anymore… Don’t get me wrong, I’m voting for the R just to screw with the D’s… but this isn’t even like when I used to have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

        • wmcb says:

          Me too, jeffhas. I’m voting for Mitt, but I don’t feel any emotional attachment. I know I disagree with him on stuff, but I’m not agonizing over it at all. It’s kind of fun to observe all this unfold knowing that despite the fact that I’m rooting for Mitt to unseat Obama, on the ideological level I just don’t care. It’s all strategic at this point for me, so I’m not stressing.

      • foxyladi14 says:

        YUM!!!! 😆

    • angienc says:

      I belong to a religion where we believe that during consecration the bread & wine become the body & blood of Jesus Christ — literally, not symbolically.

      I criticize no one’s religious beliefs unless they actually cause harm to others (Sharia, female mutilation, etc).

      Now, cults of personality such as Obama’s? Bunch of morons. At least the God I believe in doesn’t have jug ears on top of a swivel-stick body, slo-jamming the news to look “cool.”

  8. DandyTiger says:

    2012 Obot theme song:

  9. myiq2xu says:

    Rev. Wright urged to stay silent until after 2012

    Rev. Jeremiah Wright, whose “God damn America” sermon set off a firestorm during the 2008 campaign, agreed not to publish an account of the episode until after President Obama’s 2012 re-election campaign, according to an interview Wright conducted with the author of a new book on Obama. Wright said he made the decision at the urging of a friend and mentor, the prominent University of Chicago emeritus professor Martin Marty.

    In the interview, Wright told Ed Klein, author of The Amateur: Barack Obama in the White House, that he keeps a cardboard box of documents and notes detailing his experiences beginning in March 2008, when the controversy over his sermons began. “It’s a painful box to look at,” Wright said.

    “Marty had me over to his home for dinner in January [2010],” Wright told Klein. “He said to me, ‘Are you keeping notes on what’s happened to you in this Obama campaign?’ I said, ‘Yes, sir, I am.’ He said, ‘Don’t publish it until after the next election. They’ll think it’s sour grapes. Wait until after 2012.'”

    It was at that point, Wright told Klein, that he decided to leave the box untouched, at least for now. “I don’t look at the box,” Wright said. “I haven’t looked at it since I’ve been to Marty’s house.”

    • Now that box is known and subject to control. I hope Wright secured it, or I bet we read about a “break-in” at the church or his house at some point during this election.

    • Pips says:

      Marty, reached by phone at his Chicago home Saturday, said Wright’s recollections were accurate. Marty, a legend in the field of the history of religion, declined to make any other comment.

      But why would the honorable professor even meddle with this? 😯

    • wmcb says:

      I like Booker, too. I tend to like “tell it like it is” politicians. Even the ones I disagree with, I like the fact that they tell you honestly what they are about, and don’t play bullshit games.

      • DeniseVB says:

        I think Booker is definitely a rising star in the Dems and it’s nice to see he’s not playing the bullsh*t games of Team WTF. I always felt if Obama dropped Biden for Booker, the Dems would probably be guaranteed the WH for the next 12 years.

        Did you see the Christie/Booker parody vid at the twitchy link ? It was posted here a few posts back too, and still makes me ROFLMAO.

        I can’t wait for the Booker pushback this week 😉

  10. HELENK says:

    If it is ok to attack the mormon religion of Romney, why is it racist and not ok to even speak about backtrack being raised in the muslim religion and not attending a christian church until he was in his late 20s and needed a political base??

    • myiq2xu says:

      “I was a little Jakarta street kid,” he said in a wide-ranging interview in his office (excerpts are on my blog, http://www.nytimes.com/ontheground). He once got in trouble for making faces during Koran study classes in his elementary school, but a president is less likely to stereotype Muslims as fanatics — and more likely to be aware of their nationalism — if he once studied the Koran with them.

      Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”

      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html

      • HELENK says:

        so being a muslim is wonderful, but being a mormon not so much.

        What you are taught as a child stays with you. Even if you leave a religion, what was taught to you , you remember. Hopefully you live your life by the good things you are taught and avoid the not so good.

        • votermom says:

          What you are taught as a child stays with you.

          Very true. Even if you end up rejecting your cradle beliefs; the shape of your rejection is informed by those beliefs.

  11. myiq2xu says:

    Comment from Just One Minute:

    When is the NYT gonna do a story about how Rev. Wright’s Trinity United shaped Barack Obama?

    On the Chris Matthews show he talked about the republicans bringing race back to the election by raising Reverend Wright. I was a little confused because I thought Wright was about religion not race. But Chris kept up that meme until everyone agreed republicans are racists.

    Then he raised the “religious” issue of Romney’s mormonism, and someone commented that Mormons were racists until a few years ago so it’s fair game.

    My head spun around 3 times and now my neck is sore.

  12. Pingback: The Long Run: How the Mormon Church Shaped Mitt Romney « The … | Church

  13. 1539days says:

    By the way, screw Obama. John McCain was a fighter pilot and a prisoner of war during Vietnam and Evilrod and his minions unfairly attacked him all the time. Nothing that could happen to Obama this election season could be as bad as the crap dealt against McCain. It can’t be as bad as the crap dealt against Hillary Clinton, either.

    • DeniseVB says:

      McCain ran a crappy “nice” campaign against the Chicago Machine and lost 😦 Not only would he have made a better Preezy, but we would have Sarah too……and the Keystone Pipeline 😀

      A President HRC would have been better too (I often wonder if she would have picked Obama as VP ? Or chosen country over politics and picked a qualified running mate? :snort:)

      Obama certainly has been an American Politics learning experience 😉

      • Oswald says:

        She would have offered him the job and if he accepted she would have given him real responsibilities in her administration.

        • DeniseVB says:

          Woulda, Coulda, Shouda is almost as fun as a #hashtag game. A VP Obama would have at least been more qualified to be President in 2016 ? And he would still be a young 55ish.

          Now I wonder if Hill was even offered VP. If so, she played it smart to take SOS. I like Biden, but I think there were better choices to VP than Biden. He needed a Cheney-ish propper-upper.

  14. angienc says:

    Axelrod say “Mormonism is off the table” (I’m sure he means that as much as when they said Palin’s family “was off the table” in 2008) but makes sure to criticize Romney for not being vehement enough in his repudiation of Rev. Wright attack ads. You know, when the word “repudiate” (about the strongest word one can use in the situation) isn’t “strong” enough, there is no pleasing you.

    http://nationaljournal.com/2012-presidential-campaign/axelrod-mormonism-off-the-table-20120520

    I do kind of agree we don’t need to use Rev. Wright to make Obama guilty by association. We have Obama’s own words & broken promises now, so we have proof of direct guilt (which seems to be the tack the Romney campaign itself is taking). Funny how Axelrod wants to pretend that isn’t happening.

    • leslie says:

      Irish cooking isn’t good, but it isn’t THAT bad.
      (I heard it was a gang-related thing. But that’s what they seem to say when they “got nothing”.)

      • yttik says:

        Could be Occupy Anarchists? Wa and Oregon have had problems with them flash mobbing coffee shops and convenience stores.

        I guess it could be a gang related dare or something, but most of the diners were supposedly from out of town. Maybe it was the anti-tourism brigade?

      • I’ve been watching the development of this story, and it is interesting. There’s a battle for narratives and the truth is difficult to pin point. I started following it on the cop’s blog that someone posted yesterday (bless them for that).

        At first the media wasn’t reporting on it, but there was evidence in the record that a “beer-making” spin was already being put to effect by occupiers. The cop was insisting that the evidence was solid. Then one of the Chicago papers reported on it from an Occupier-friendly point of view, calling into question the credibility of the investigation and again invoking the beer-making thing. The beer-making thing was pretty much dismantled in the cop’s comment thread when it was suggested that a) beer-making is not a typical travel activity and b) the beer-making equipment was what the investigators left, which is why they were seen in a TV news video report.

        At the same time, the other major Chicago newspaper posted a story in a decidedly unfriendly to occupiers article, charging terrorism in the headline, and invoking a plan to target Obama headquarters and Rahm’s house. In the wake of that development, there’s been a push back and forth. The National Lawyer’s Guild, representing the three men, are saying this entrapment, that they were just innocent, non-violent protesters drawn into a web by undercover agents who were posing as fellow occupiers. The media reports that the government is unified in alleging they successfully avoided a terrorist plot. In most of the articles I’ve read, one of the men’s uncle is quoted as saying the man is somewhat of a screw up, but he couldn’t imagine him being involved in anything like this. Apparently they have been in recent contact due to the death of the man’s father.

        Anyway, I am immediately suspicious of the targeting of OFA or Rahm’s house. That just seems a little too pat and helpful, invoking sympathy for two of the most diabolical politicians in the country, men who clearly need to be seen as protection-worthy. It’s possible, but that doesn’t sound like something OWS, or even the Black Bloc, of which they are alleged to be a part, would do. That said, I also find suspicious the assertion that these are just completely innocent young men caught up in some national security apparatus when all they wanna do is protest income inequality. So it’s hard to judge what’s going on here. I’m taking a wait and see attitude, and maintaining my traditional healthy dose of cynicism.

      • leslie says:

        yttk~ The reports I heard last night suggested that this was a targeted attack on a specific group of people who had come in from out of town. At first, there seemed to be some attempt to connect the attacks and the NATO protest. I wonder if it wasn’t coincidental that the two events occured on the same weekend. I hope there is a clarification soon. Tinley Park isn’t anywhere near the protests.
        But I still haven’t heard anything more.
        BTW: It was 98 degrees earlier this afternoon (unofficial) it is currently 92 deg. (per teevee) and there is fighting between police and protestors now.
        The police are in riot gear and are likely not happy about wearing all that equipment. It is getting ugly.

  15. Oswald says:

    I hope she don’t teach civics:

    • Oswald says:

      A YouTube video uploaded on Monday afternoon apparently shows a schoolteacher from the Rowan-Salisbury school district in North Carolina informing a student that failing to be respectful of President Obama is a criminal offense.

      • yttik says:

        I have a kid that is just finishing up with soc studies and it’s been an Obamanation. Her teacher demands everyone participate and yet allows no political dissent. Yes indeed, her teacher has also informed the kids that failing to be respectful of President Obama is a criminal offense.

        • Oswald says:

          Isn’t it funny how many Proglodytes suddenly became concerned about respecting POTUS when Obama was sworn in?

        • wmcb says:

          Yes, Oswald. But I’m a traditionalist, and America has a long proud tradition of mocking, insulting, and railing against her presidents. I called Bush every name in the book, I call Obama every name in the book, and I have no doubt I’ll call Mitt a lying cocksucker at some point in his presidency should he win.

          This is America – It’s what we do. 😀

      • angienc says:

        Oh, don’t worry. If Obama gets a second term it will be.

        Constitutional expert Pelosi (of the “are you serious?” when questioned on Constitutionality of the mandate in health care law Pelosis) has been squawking for weeks now that the First Amendment needs to be amended to keep those evil corporations from engaging in political speech via donations.

    • wmcb says:

      That’s just sick.

    • HELENK says:

      anybody ever tell the twit how this nation got started.
      We do not bow down, we stand up , shout out and until now
      the president worked for the people and could get fired as they only had a four year contract, subject to renewal

  16. wmcb says:

    An atheist chimes in on the Althouse thread. Once again, he relates a personal experience that Mormons are nice and boy-scoutish folks:

    I could beat Richard Dawkins in believing in a cold dead universe that could not care less about your little slime mold existence, but I will say that when a friend of mine got lost in Gooseberry Mesa while slickrock biking, I started asking for help among the few others in the parking lot and I was blown off with empty wishes of good luck by most of the people there. Then this party of Mormons heard my troubles. Two of them immediately took off together to see if they could find him before dusk. A third started calling a biking expert in the nearest town to see where he was likely to be; and the fourth stayed with me to offer moral support. They stayed on the job for about two hours, until the two who went looking found him at the place where the biking expert thought he was most likely to have turned the wrong way.

  17. leslie says:

    I am currently watching news coverage of the protests and becoming more an more angry. The reporters are using emotional language and are presenting the “news” with hysteria. MSM is not helping to understand what is happening or why. (Perhaps they don’t know how to report, but they should have taken lessons from real reporters Dan Rather and Walter Cronkite come to mind.)
    The reporters are scared – even though some of them are reporting from their studios and are not right there. It is no wonder people don’t support most protests. I wonder if this is why the anti-Iraq war protests weren’t covered widely – especially in the cities where they took place.
    I know I’m rambling now. But this coverage is scary. I think about how reporters can turn people on a dime. If we want to criticize Obama, and the press is in the DNC pocket, how easy would it be for them to turn the nation against us?

  18. Oswald says:

  19. HELENK says:

    a picture of today’s eclipse in Toyko

    http://twitpic.com/9nfqft

  20. HELENK says:

    really interesting political as
    who is obama?????????

    http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/05/20/who-is-barack-obama-image/

  21. HELENK says:

    Iowa Hawk

    David Burge ‏@iowahawkblog

    #AnarchistProblems mean-looking proles in my Cook County Jail cell not interested in talking about my article in Socialist Worker

  22. DandyTiger says:

    Time for some music, here’s some Mary Isabel Catherine Bernadette O’Brien:

  23. wmcb says:

    I liked the pre-Saturday Night Fever BeeGees the best. My favorite here:

  24. HELENK says:

    from the ” you can not make this up and you have to be kidding ” school of thought

    http://weaselzippers.us/2012/05/20/planned-parenthood-wishes-you-a-happy-masturbation-month/

  25. HELENK says:

    a beautiful voice from another time

  26. DandyTiger says:

    Cee Lo Green said something in an interview this evening I liked (I might have it a bit off, but close):

    If you’re honest with yourself, it’s hard to be lied to.

    I think that’s the problem with Obots and how they bought into Obama’s lies: they’ve never been honest with themselves about why they followed Obama in the first place. The truth of course is they followed him simply because of his skin color. Because they could never face that and be honest with themselves, they were had from the beginning, and easily lied to. As long as they’re still lying to themselves about it, they are owned by Obamanation lock, stock, and barrel.

    • DandyTiger says:

      IOW, Obots built a delusional world around their choice of Obama based race (whether it was racism, race guilt, or whatever) that made them think it was anything but simply about race. Once you’ve built up that delusion, anything that threatens to expose it is met with hate and violence, anything that supports it is welcomed. Lies about Obama as something great are welcomed. People like us telling them they’re patronizing fuckwads, not so much.

  27. votermom says:

    I did a quick look at some lefty blogs and I am now informed that it is right & just to fear and mock Mormons because they are strange, racist, and patriarchal.
    Just like Christians used to be before time wore of their strangeness.
    Criticizing Islam, however, is sheer racism since most Muslims are not white.

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