Well that was different

CNN Poll: Debate watchers split on who won VP debate

Call it a draw.

Forty-eight percent of voters who watched the vice presidential debate think that Rep. Paul Ryan won the showdown, according to a CNN/ORC International nationwide poll conducted right after Thursday night’s faceoff. Forty-four percent say that Vice President Joe Biden was victorious. The Republican running mate’s four point advantage among a debate audience that was more Republican than the country as a whole is within the survey’s sampling error.

Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn’t make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates’ bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.

According to the survey, 55% said that the vice president did better than expected, with 51% saying that the congressman from Wisconsin performed better than expected.

By a 50%-41% margin, debate watchers say that Ryan rather than Biden better expressed himself.

Seven in ten said Biden was seen as spending more time attacking his opponent, and that may be a contributing factor in Ryan’s 53%-43% advantage on being more likable. Ryan also had a slight advantage on being more in touch with the problems of average Americans.

One of the top jobs for the candidates in a vice presidential debate is to convince Americans that they would be able to step into the top job if something happened to the president. The poll indicates that both men were seen as qualified to be president if necessary, by roughly equal numbers.

I had a couple possible scenarios in my head about how the debate would turn out. None of the scenarios came close to reality.

I guess who won depends on who you wanted to win. If you are an Obama supporter you probably think Biden kicked Ryan’s ass. If you are a Romney supporter you probably think that Ryan was incredibly patient with that crazy old man who kept yelling at him. If you are one of those 3-4 people who are still undecided then you’re probably still undecided.

Historically the VP candidates don’t determine the election. On the other hand, I really don’t think Joe Biden’s bizarre behavior did their reelection campaign much good last night.

What do you think?

This entry was posted in 2012 Elections, Barack Obama, Mitt Romney and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

104 Responses to Well that was different

  1. myiq2xu says:

    If you want to watch it again to see if you were hallucinating, please kdfspd here it is:

  2. Glennmcgahee says:

    My takeaway from that debate was that I realized for the first time that Ryan knew a heck of alot more about the middle east, especially Afghanistan than I’ve heard him express before. He’s known previous to this debate for his wonkiness with monetary matters. Frankly, I was impressed. Everything out of Biden’s mouth I’ve heard for years and years (on MSNBC).

  3. myiq2xu says:

    I really hope that Obama tries to pull a Biden on Romney. That would pretty much ice it for Mitt

    • Constance says:

      I think that could happen since the Democrats seem to think Biden’s behavior last night was positive. Condescending and mocking seems to be their goal and the past shows they can pull that off. Serious thoughtful voters don’t want to see it but Obots aren’t in touch with reality.

  4. myiq2xu says:

    I was watching the debate while switching back and forth between the drunk blog and Twitter. what was really funny was that in both places people kept saying the same things simultaneously.


    Is Biden drunk?

    Quit interrupting!

    Why won’t she let Ryan finish?

    Several times I typed a comment/tweet and hit enter and saw similar comments pop-up at the same time.

    We were all reacting the same way to the same things.

    • Lulu says:

      Unless you are brainwashed or were raised in a bear pit Biden looked and sounded like the quintessential bullying elitist drunk boring the hell out of everyone at the country club. Hogging air time, sneering, interrupting, smirking, laughing at a Non-ex-US Senator such as himself and Obama. This performance was to blunt criticism from their base who adore these kind of slap-downs.

      • DeniseVB says:

        That’s what I thought, Joe represented the worst of the Obama-Biden supporters and they LOVED it. Rude, demeaning, smartassery and thugish. Joe trolled the debate! 😀

        As myiq says, if Obama brings this game to the next debate, Romney wins 😉

    • Lulu says:

      Now they have to run it instead of just letting it sit on Youtube. This ad is as mean as Biden was. I hope Obama’s debate prep team enjoy it because it will make everyone else cringe.

  5. tommy says:

    Like I stated in the last thread, the narrative has been set that Biden won big. CNN isn’t been seen to be credible cos they oversampled repubs. The CBS poll is accepted as gospel truth cos they polled uncommitted voters. But as I delved a bit deeper into that poll, it got murky. Out of 431 polled, not all were undecided. Some of them had chosen a candidate, but were open to changing their minds. Out of the 431, 58% identified themselves as independents, 17% as repubs and 25% as democrats. These sort of figures make me suspect the veracity of the CBS poll too. In the end, I think that the debate ended in a draw.

  6. tommy says:

    I must say that Biden succeeded in what he was sent out to do, and that is energize the base. After the limp-dicked performance by BHO, the base almost went comatose.

  7. myiq2xu says:

    Ace of Spades:

    Proverbs 29:9

    When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man, The foolish man either rages or laughs, and there is no rest.


    I re-watched it. It was like having an argument with your drunk, blowhard, dullwitted uncle at Thanksgiving. And your drunk blowhard dullwitted uncle, who is superior to you only in age, keeps asserting he’s right about everything by shouting “I WAS THERE!!!”

  8. myiq2xu says:

    • Constance says:

      Why does Biden’s behavior apparently disgust women more than men? Can women read body language better? For my part I couldn’t hear Biden’s words because his body language was so inappropriate and it was yelling.

      • yttik says:

        I think women have been on the receiving end of that kind of behavior more often, so we recognize it easier. Men don’t usually treat each other that way.

        You’ll notice that Biden stabbed his finger at Martha, not at Ryan. If you stab your finger in a man’s face, they might bite it off or punch you in the nose.

  9. myiq2xu says:

    • swanspirit says:

      OK I am a nurse ; so before I clicked the link I thought adult industry meant the people who sell depends and other adult diapers and protective items ..

  10. tommy says:

    Damn men will always be men. ‘Richard Gere was ordered out of a restaurant by an irate husband after allegedly flirting with his wife. The actor, who is married to Carey Lowell, was told to stay away from the woman after he reportedly left his table to chat with her’.

  11. elliesmom says:

    After watching last night’s debate, I’m glad Obama doesn’t have a terminal illness. And people were worried about Sarah Palin’s being “a heartbeat away”.

    • DeniseVB says:

      I think Sarah was surprised at Biden’s odd behaviour since he was a lot more respectful to her. So that makes me wonder if they sent Joe out to be nutso on purpose since he didn’t bring anything fresh to the table. That way the media would focus on the crazy uncle angle and not what a little smarty Paul Ryan is.

      • cj says:

        Well, the other thing is, you can’t debate crazy. Which may have been the only strategy you have left when you’re trying defend Obama’s record. If you know you can’t answer Ryan’s questions, make sure the questions never get asked.

    • DeniseVB says:

      Ooops, and there’s Sarah 😀

    • catarina says:

      WTF was she talking about? I seriously wondered if she watched the same debate when she started going on about Ryan talking about liberty and personal freedom.
      He didn’t say anything remotely close to that.
      (And I would know, because I suffered through every miserable minute of the entire miserable debate.)

      Ryan can’t really say much about liberty and personal freedom, since he thinks the government gets a say in who can have an abortion.
      The pro choice people will be fundraising today.

      • elliesmom says:

        Before the rains from hell come down on me, let me start by saying for the umpteenth dozen time that I am pro-choice. But if you believe that life begins at conception, and science does support that, then you also believe that the child who is being aborted also has a right to “personal freedom”. Perspective is everything. Is there only one person being affected by the abortion, or are there two? I have a daughter and a daughter-in-law. One is outspoken in her belief in a woman’s right to have an abortion under any circumstances. The other believes that abortion is murder. I fall somewhere in between. Our discussions are lively, but we have come to understand the only way we can move past this issue that keeps us divided is to listen more than we talk. Martha was bound to ask the abortion question last night., and it was part of her agenda to ask it last so that it would be the final impression left by the debate. I have no problem with Paul Ryan’s belief that abortion is never OK. He’s consistent with his Catholic beliefs. Biden is a hypocrite.

        • catarina says:

          Guess I was hoping Ryan would mumble something about settled law and not scare away Indie women.

          I personally find his pro-life stance scary- but it’s not nearly as scary as a second Obama term.

          Gotta go, Planned Parenthood calling..

        • wmcb says:

          I’m pretty much where you are, elliesmom, and have a dear sister who is 100% prolife. I kind of get sick of hearing that she disagrees with me because she hates women, or sex, or is an authoritarian, whatever.

          Bullshit. She wishes she could agree with me, but her mind and conscience tells her that’s a human being, not to be killed for the convenience of another, no matter how difficult the situation. I’m fine w people disagreeing with her. I disagree w her myself when it comes to early trimester. But DO NOT tell me her motives are selfish and bigoted and controlling. I know her. They are not.

        • catarina says:

          I do hear you, EM, on the issue of consistency.
          But I still find it troubling that Ryan can’t keep his personal beliefs personal and not impose them on others.

          The media has something to scare women with-brace for it.

        • wmcb says:

          Catarina, if you really understand the motivations of sincere prolife folks, then you realize how silly the whole “imposing personal beliefs” sounds to them. It’s like saying to an abolitionist, ” I get that you personally think black people are human beings, not property, but why do you insist on imposing that on the rest of us? Don’t like slavery? Then don’t own one! Simple!”

          I personally think that if we want to preserve choice for the future, we need to face head on the question of at what point is that a conscious human being, deserving of some protection under law, albeit balanced with the mother’s conflicting rights ? IMO, the prochoice movement running away from and refusing that discussion is doing us no favors. MOST people in this country, even prochoice ones, are no fan of abortion as a routine “nothing”, which is how the prochoice side largely wants to portray it. If you force those people to choose between a prolife position with few exceptions, and a position that says “taxpayer funded abortions, whenever, for whatever reason, for minors, for birth control, no different than a teeth cleaning, so shut up!” many are going to reluctantly choose the prolife side.

          I’ve been saying this for awhile, and watching the opinion polls grow more and more prolife, especially among young people. The prochoice side is fucking up, bigtime.

      • Constance says:

        Republicans want to stop government funding of abortions and birth control they do not want to make abortion and birth control illegal. I am irritated that we aren’t having a discussion about whether I will have to pay for the ED drugs of pedophile priests (I am Catholic) under Obama care. I don’t want the government or my employer deciding what is covered in my health care, that is a major reason I am voting Republican. I also resent having the abortion dog whistle blown in my direction once again. Sane people prioritize their problems. I am past reproduction, I know where birth control comes from and I can easily buy it since it is cheap, abortion is safe because of state laws where I live. Now can we talk about jobs, spending money we don’t have and passing the debt on to our children and why our government thinks it can lie to citizens about what happened in Libya, and the worthless media who we are forced to subsidize with our basic cable subscription? After the election I think we should all take on the cause of cable TV a la carte and force Corporate Media into a free market.

        • wmcb says:

          HONK on a la carte cable! Make them have to appeal to ME to buy their shitty programming, instead of bundling it with stuff I actually
          want to watch. Competition and free markets, baby.

  12. carol haka says:

    I think Luntz got tricked on his supposed “independent” voters. They were from Cincinnati. They get to make the ultimate decision again and again. Shows me why the country is so fucked up. What a bunch of ignorant losers – they enjoyed the brazen, blowhard, lying and inaccurate abuser. 👿

    • catarina says:

      Almost all of them raised their hands when Luntz asked who voted for Obama.
      Sucky sample, Frank.

  13. myiq2xu says:

    “Vice President Biden continued the Administration’s pattern of misleading the American people about events in Libya. He wrongly stated that the Administration was not aware of requests for more security from our diplomatic facilities in Libya. But we now know from the sworn testimony of two U.S. security officials who were stationed in Libya that there were repeated requests for more security in the face of rising threats. We need leaders who will be truthful with the American people and who are informed about vital issues of national security. Joe Biden’s comments point to the larger failures of the Administration to be completely transparent about the terrorist attacks in Benghazi and the security situations leading up to the attacks.”
    – Dan Senor, Romney Campaign Senior Adviser

  14. britgirls says:

    Wall Street Journal saw the same thing we did. So it wasn’t just us!!


    Only four-wah more-wah days to the next debate. It’ll be a lot more interesting. Will Obama again bring a nap pillow to a gun fight?

  15. myiq2xu says:

    Sarah P is supposed to be on Fox & Friends this am.

  16. tommy says:

    An update from the religion of peace and our favourite best friend and ally, Pakistan. ‘Mob attacks Pakistani Christian boy’s house – A mob led by Islamic clerics ransacked the home of a teenage Christian boy in Pakistan’s Karachi city and set fire to furniture and some other household articles after he was accused of sending text messages with blasphemous content, a media report said on Thursday. The incident occured in the staff colony of the Sui Southern Gas Company, a middle-class neighbourhood in Gulshan-e-Iqbal area, on Wednesday. Police said the boy was accused by local residents of sending text messages containing blasphemous content to employees and offices of Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC) at the residential-cum-office compound, the Dawn newspaper reported. After the news circulated among residents of the colony, a mob attacked the quarter of 16 year old Ryan Stanten. His mother, Rubina Bryan, works as a superitendent at SSGC. The boy and his mother were unharmed as they had left the quarter the previous night due to tension in the area’.

  17. yttik says:

    I really don’t care what the media says, Joe Biden sucked last night. That was not a draw, Ryan won, hands down. Ryan didn’t really kick Biden’s butt, Biden self destructed to the sound of his own mocking laughter.

    • Constance says:

      I agree. Clearly the Obots are happy with the outcome but do you think they feel like they need the approval of voters? I don’t think they do, they only need their own beliefs reinforced

    • bluestate says:

      yep. but consider the source. the msm is desperate to see a victory for their team here. i won’t be surprised if they declare obama the winner of the next two debates no matter what happens. i was surprised they even let romney be declared the winner of the first one.

  18. driguana says:

    I grow further and further away from comprehension. Life is but a dream….it’s what you make it.

    • gram cracker says:

      Maybe Lohan is angling for the “A Star is Born” remake job with Clint Eastwood that Beyonce bailed out on.

  19. catarina says:


    The first female combat pilot in U.S. military history would seem an unlikely target for a kitchen-themed attack ad, and yet that’s exactly what Nancy Pelosi’s House Majority PAC and Rep. Ron Barber have cooked up for Martha McSally, a retired Air Force colonel and pioneering A-10 pilot.


    “The fact that they use this theme of Martha McSally in a kitchen cooking up recipes is…overtly sexist and insulting to any woman, but it certainly doesn’t fit specifically with me,” she said in a phone interview. “For crying out loud, I served 26 years in the military. I was too busy shooting 30 mm out of my A-10 at the Taliban and al Qaeda to spend any time in a kitchen.”

    • Come on, the ad was created by progbots. All they know is women cooking in the kitchen, but a woman “…too busy shooting 30 mm out of my A-10 at the Taliban and al Qaeda to spend any time in a kitchen.” Nope, don’t know that one.

  20. Pingback: Men, Men, Men, Men, Men

  21. driguana says:

    I believe now for sure that we have entered the twilight zone….

  22. yttik says:

    One reason the Romney/Obama debate was so powerful is because people got to see a weak president hiding behind smirks. The Biden/Ryan debate reaffirmed that image, this is an administration that is weak and must hide behind arrogance and ridicule.

    People vote for what they perceive as strength in a President. Smirking, mocking, squirming around, is defensive behavior, not strength. The American people know that. It’s instinctual. This debate was very bad for team Obama.

    • britgirls says:

      Completely agree. The smirking, mocking looks just remind me of Bush … and also Obama out on the stump.

      I wouldn’t put up with juvenile behavior like that from my kids. It’s horrifying to see someone at the top level of government doing it.

      Having said that, I really do hope that they see Biden’s performance as a win and direct Obama to go the same way. Heh!

      • exactly. That was the point of my post this morning.

        Both veeps did a good job last night (as in they more or less succeeded at what they set out to do) — but by both winning (which is kind of what a tie *is*), they had the opposite effects on their bosses:

        Biden makes obama look much much worse
        Ryan makes Romney look better

  23. driguana says:

    Life is But a Dream…

  24. wmcb says:

    The only postive the Obama team got out of that debate was that seeing a nasty, sneering Biden cheered up his nasty, sneering base.

    Other than that, it didn’t help, and likely hurt. All Ryan really needed to do was show himself competent and not screw up. He did that in spades. Biden needed to stop Obama’s slide with indies and undecideds. He didn’t.

    The more this debate sinks in, the less the moderate middle is going to like it. Voters in swing states and women, especially older women, are going to FEEL Biden was a boorish dick – regardless of who “dominated” or won on points.

  25. gram cracker says:

    So Kerry was Obama’s debate coach. Looks like Al Bore was Biden’s.

  26. angienc says:

    BTW — just a reminder to anyone who believes the “I’m a warrior for the middle class” crap out of Biden’s mouth — he, in the Senate, was the driver behind the 2005 Bankruptcy Reform Act that was a huge fuck you to the middle class in favor of the lenders. As I said over at John’s place, I wouldn’t vote for a ticket with Biden on even if I wasn’t an ABO voter.

    • myiq2xu says:

      Remember when Jeralyn said Biden would be a deal-breaker?

      Then Obama picked Biden and Jeralyn said “Nevermind.”

    • cj says:

      Anita Hill. If you watched any part of the hearings, you knew exactly what kind of low-life, pond scum Joe Biden was/is. I was still a very loyal Democrat at the time, and I knew I’d never forgive him. And I haven’t.

      • angienc says:

        Oh, I remember Anita Hill very well — that hearing & Biden’s behavior heading the Senate committee on the Hill matter was my “A-Ha!” moment as a woman (i.e., my realization that men and women were *not* always treated the same). I wouldn’t vote for a ticket with Biden on it for Anita Hill alone — I’m only bringing up the “middle class warrior” bullshit because that is what he was raging about last night.

        • cj says:

          That was my first real break with the Democratic Party too. It still makes me furious when I think about it.

        • mine too. first time I was ever riveted to the tv in my life.

          what really turned me into the radical feminist maniac you all know and love today was the New Hampshire primary in 2008 when Hillary got the “Make me a sandwich” dickheads at her rally and the media laughed and said she was an emotional crybaby. That was my big aha moment — the realization that the bastards really werent going to let her compete fairly and that the media and the elites of the DNC were in on it together.

          • angienc says:

            Me too re: “radical feminist maniac.” Before the NH primary I wasn’t even necessarily a Hillary supporter — I had assumed I was going to vote for whoever the Dem candidate was (the states I’ve lived in always come too late to make a difference in the primary for actually choosing the candidate). I had thought — wrongly — we’d made all kinds of progress from the Anita Hill days. Ha! Hillary was a re-awakening for me. As my mom put it at the time “Oh, isn’t the Democrat party so nice — a woman can be whatever she wants, unless it’s President. Then she better get back to baking cookies.”

        • exactly. Love your mom.

    • THIS!!!!!! I was screaming this at my TV. Biden’s sponsorship of this bill –which made student loans *exempt* from bankruptcy was the reason I stopped liking Biden. Then they had the audacity to reissue it and make it worse in 2005. A big FU to the middle class.

  27. gram cracker says:

    Ryan debate performance at a minimum didn’t hurt the Romney/Ryan ticket. Hopefully his demeanor and presentation of his knowledge of domestic and foreign policy will reassure middle of the road undecided voters that Ryan would be a good VP.

  28. gram cracker says:

    An ad showing Biden saying he “means what he says” with a clip from his Romney/Ryan will “put you back in chains” speech would show what at partisan divisive buffoon Joey is.

  29. yttik says:

    Biden got it all wrong on Syria. He said “Syria is five time larger than Libya.” It’s not, it’s much smaller. He said there were less people spread over a larger area. That’s not true either. There are more people in a smaller area.

    Biden also said regarding the auto bailout, “we saved a million jobs! 100,000 people are now working!” I can’t fact check that because it didn’t even make sense, but I am curious about what happened to the other 900,000 people.

    • westcoaster says:

      I thought that too, but then I found the transcript on ABC:

      RADDATZ: Let’s move to another war, the civil war in Syria, where there are estimates that more — estimates that more than 25,000, 30,000 people have now been killed. In March of last year, President Obama explained the military action taken in Libya by saying it was in the national interest to go in and prevent further massacres from occurring there. So why doesn’t the same logic apply in Syria? Vice President Biden?

      BIDEN: Different country. It’s a different country. It is five times as large geographically, it has one-fifth the population, that is Libya, one-fifth the population, five times as large geographically.

      If that transcript is true, Biden was really rambling, fishing for an answer

  30. votermom says:

    From an ace commenter

    Erevis over on Ar15.com crunched the numbers:
    In the VP debate, Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times. The moderator interrupted Ryan 34 times, for a total of 116 times in a 90 minute debate.
    Now, let’s break that down further:
    Biden spoke for 41:50 minutes. Ryan spoke for 40.05 minutes.
    This means that Ryan was interrupted by either Biden or the moderator EVERY 20.73 SECONDS.
    Try making ANY POINT under such assault.

    • votermom says:

      Also from that thread

      In all the hubbub about the empty chair visual people forgot how Mr.

      Eastwood described Biden as a grin with a body attached. Clint is a


    • wmcb says:

      Ryan did AMAZINGLY well not to lose it and completely screw up under those conditions.

  31. votermom says:

    Brokaw says Biden shld not have laughed during a discussion of thermonuclear war. Mika tries a “what Biden actually did”

  32. foxyladi14 says:

    😆 found this over at Katz Porch

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