Math R Hard

Obamacare

Obamacare


Journolist founder Ezra Klein:

The shocking truth about Obamacare’s rate shock

[…]

I looked for insurance in Irvine, Calif. — my home town. The average monthly premiums of the five cheapest plans is $114. So I took the middle plan, HealthNet’s IFP PPO Value 4500. It’s got a $4,500 deductible, a $2,500 deductible for brand-name medications, huge co-pays and a little “bestseller” icon next to it. And it’s only $109 a month — if they’ll sell it to you for that price.

That’s the catch, and it’s a big one. Click to buy the plan and eventually you’ll have to answer pages and pages of questions about your health history. Ever had cancer? How about an ulcer? How about a headache? Do you feel sad when it rains? When it doesn’t rain? Is there a history of cardiovascular disease in your family? Have you ever known anyone who had the flu? The actual cost of the plan will depend on how you answer those questions.

According to HealthCare.gov, 14 percent of people who try to buy that plan are turned away outright. Another 12 percent are told they’ll have to pay more than $109. So a quarter of the people who try to buy this insurance product for $109 a month are told they can’t. Those are the people who need insurance most — they are sick, or were sick, or are likely to get sick. So, again, is $109 really the price of this plan?

Comparing the pre-underwriting price of this plan to those in Obamacare’s exchanges is ridiculous. The plans in Obamacare’s exchanges have to include those people. They can’t turn anyone away or jack up rates because of a history of arthritis or heart disease.

They also have to offer insurance that meets a certain minimum standard. Under Obamacare, for instance, the out-of-pocket limit for someone making 100 to 200 percent of the poverty line is $1,983. Under the Value 4500, you could spend up to $9,500 before the out-of-pocket limit kicked in. Obamacare also has subsidies for people making up to four times the poverty line. The poor pay next to nothing. The rich pay full freight.


So is that $109 just for me, or does it include my family? Is that deductible apply to each of us, or all of us combined? What is the poverty line? How much are the subsidies?

$9,500 divided by 12 is almost $800 per month. Of course that assumes I actually use my health insurance. If I don’t get sick or injured it’s a lot cheaper. But “don’t get sick” is the health plan most working poor people had before Obamacare.

If you lie about those health questions or develop one or more of those conditions as you get older, be prepared to see your rates skyrocket. And they’ll know you developed them because your doctor will tell them. Once they get everybody’s information in the centralized database, you can’t lie because they’ll know what your family has too!

If you add 25% more people to the insurance pool and those people can’t afford to pay full premiums, the people who are already in the plan will have to pay the difference. That’s basic math.

Obamacare does nothing to control or reduce health costs. All it does is provide a huge windfall for the health insurance companies. If you don’t buy health insurance, the IRS will make you pay a special tax.

The Supreme Court said so.


“If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of money you will spend on premiums. That will be less.” – Barack Obama

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About Myiq2xu™

Being an asshole is all part of my manly essence.
This entry was posted in Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, ObamaTax and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink.

102 Responses to Math R Hard

  1. myiq2xu says:

    Gabe Malor:

    I think the most inventive Democratic response is probably Ezra Klein’s, which boils down to the claim that the President cannot be held accountable for his insurance premiums lie because it was an obvious lie that everyone should have seen through when it was made. Obvious lies, we are to understand, do not count against the speaker. Rather, in Klein’s twisted ethic, such lies are to be held against the hearer who did not understand them correctly. The “correct” meaning of the President’s lie, according to Klein, is the exact opposite of the plain meaning of the words of the lie. In other words, Klein thinks Obama was being sarcastic when he said you will spend less money on premiums.

    • votermom says:

      I tweeted a link to that post:

    • angienc (D) says:

      Uh, Ezra’s right — Obama’s lie was obvious & only complete idiots who are barely capable of dressing themselves could have believed it, Unfortunately, they constitute the vast majority of Obama’s base. The rest of his base — i.e., the ones who “sold” the lie vigorously while calling Obama’s opponents liars/felons/murders/etc — are simply corrupt assholes & sociopaths who didn’t give a f*ck that he was lying because he’s “so cool.”

      • Mary says:

        And yet, Ezra promoted those lies from the gitgo.

        • angienc (D) says:

          Oh, I know — he’s one of the corrupt assholes of which I write.

        • wmcb says:

          Yep. While Obamacare was being debated, those of us who said it would drive premiums up were LIARS!! Now that it is doing exactly what we predicted, we are teh STOOOOPID for not realizing it all along.

          They turn on a dime to protect their precious. They will call black white and green purple, and they’ll do it if need be all in the same day. Whatever works. They have no shame. None.

        • angienc (D) says:

          Yep — we were racist liars when we opposed Obamacare because it had nothing to do with health *care* and was only about health insurance companies & raising premiums.
          Now that we’ve been proven 100% true, we’re stupid racists — I’m not sure that’s an improvement.

  2. DeniseVB says:

    What about all the waivers he’s giving out ? Most recently to the IRS/Treasury Dept Union employees. What muck.

  3. wmcb says:

    Yep. Ezra’s article is just sneering, “Well, your problem is that you rubes just don’t understand how insurance works. Obviously the better policies mandated by Obamacare are going to be more expensive….because they are more comprehensive…if you understood that you wouldn’t be shocked!”

    No, Ezra, we do understand how insurance works. We always have. It’s the very “comprehensiveness” of Obamacare that we said from the get-go would drive prices up. We never said that the price for a minimal policy would increase. We said prices in general would go up, because those simple minimal policies could no longer exist. You seem to have missed the sarc tag in all those “I’m Shocked!” headlines. We are not really shocked, Ezra. We are calling Obama and you and all who pushed this monstrosity fucking liars.

    Oh, and WE WERE RIGHT.

    • Mary says:

      Yes, we were.

      And look at those annual deductibles ($4500, $2500)—most of Obama’s low information voters are assuming it’ll all be free—-they don’t even get that you have to reach those deductibles to get any help at all. Not to mention that copays will double and triple. Most annual medical expenses will be out of pocket anyway, now.

      We tried to tell em, didn’t we?

    • foxyladi14 says:

      AMEN!!!!! 🙂

  4. votermom says:

    OT Wow. If I was this kid’s parents I’d be so proud while I was also having a heart attack

    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Boy-Fires-Gun-at-Robbers-Home-Invasion-Suspects-Canarsie-Brooklyn-210026651.html

    Brooklyn Boy, 9, Grabs Gun from Armed Home Invaders, Fires Shots: Police
    A 9-year-old boy fought back against two robbers who broke into his family’s home in Brooklyn Monday, slamming a bedroom door against one suspect’s arm so hard that the loaded gun he was holding fell to the floor, police said.

    The boy then picked up the weapon and fired shots, scaring off the would-be robbers.

    The robbers entered the house on 80th Street in Canarsie at about 6 p.m. and ordered two teenagers inside to get on the floor, according to police.

    The only other person in the house was the boy, who was upstairs.

    When one of the suspects ran upstairs and tried to get into a second-floor bedroom, the 9-year-old boy slammed the door on the suspect’s arm, causing him to drop the gun.

    The boy picked up the gun and fired it at the suspect, according to police. No one was hit, but the home invaders quickly ran out of the house.

  5. votermom says:

    Tea Party IRS testimony starting now, not on tv, only on c-span.org

  6. swanspirit says:

    FOX seems to be covering it so far ….

  7. votermom says:

  8. myiq2xu says:
  9. myiq2xu says:

    Guess who is making a statement at the WH right now?

    • votermom says:

      #PaidLiar Squirrel?

    • votermom says:

      • DeniseVB says:

        He does that all the time. Shame on the media for biting.

        • wmcb says:

          It’s a common tactic for him to try to preempt news coverage he doesn’t like. He’s a narcissistic ass.

        • DeniseVB says:

          He did that too when Romney was giving rally speeches during the campaign. Obama would pull a squirrel out of his ass and talk about it, of course the media had to switch over to Teh Won’s remarks about nothing.

          When Glenn Beck was on Fox, it was amazing how many 30 minute “remarks” were scheduled at 5:15. Glen kept taping and would re-air that program the next day. During the time GB was hanging admin scalps on his belt 😀 It was so obvious and GB felt vindicated Obama was that concerned about him, heh.

  10. darraghcmurphy says:

    Why oh why am I listening to NPR right now?? The callers to the Diane Rehm show are effing INSANE!!

  11. votermom says:

    I love the last lady who testified. She got applause too.

  12. myiq2xu says:

    Obama’s Cabinet Using ‘Secret’ E-Mail Addresses

    The Associated Press finds that “some of President Barack Obama’s political appointees, including the Cabinet secretary for the Health and Human Services Department, are using secret government email accounts.”

    The official explanation is that the cabinet members use the secret accounts to “prevent their inboxes from being overwhelmed with unwanted messages”… but the AP notes that using secret accounts have another benefit: “secret email accounts complicate an agency’s legal responsibilities to find and turn over emails in response to congressional or internal investigations, civil lawsuits or public records requests because employees assigned to compile such responses would necessarily need to know about the accounts to search them. Secret accounts also drive perceptions that government officials are trying to hide actions or decisions.”

    “The most open and transparent administration ever®.”

  13. swanspirit says:

    I think someone saw the increase in numbers of applications of “Tea Party etc . groups , and reported those numbers to interested parties ; and decisions at the level of Lois Lerner and above ; were made on how to impede , obstruct and sandbag these groups , to prohibit them from from influencing the 2012 elections . So I would want to look at the level of administration where , and for whom , those aggregate numbers would appear in any report , and then to whom they were reported.
    The questions were created, and delays implemented deliberately , and with a view to preventing these groups from operating and designed to postpone any activity in which they would engage , again with the outcome of preventing or diluting any effect these groups would have on the election . The people who wrote the questions , and demanded that they be asked, and anyone who deliberately delayed approval of these groups need to be identified and prosecuted .

  14. swanspirit says:

    Woohooo Charlie Rangel just got his ass handed back to him LOL PRICELESS !! These high and mighties are not used to talking to anyone other than sycophants and the media . Oh wait , that was redundant .
    Lovely to watch the high and mighties have to talk to “ordinary citizens ” who won’t take their crap!

  15. votermom says:

  16. Lulu says:

    McDermont is a perfect example of a self righteous fucker of a Vile Prog. He is blaming it on the stupids at the IRS but the overall intent was just fine.

    • swanspirit says:

      Because these people aren’t intimidated enough , they need more when they come to testify the MFSOB

      • Lulu says:

        He was telling them what they believe is WRONG. He is right and they just need to get with the program dictated by their overlords of which he is one. Then he got owned by Ryan and slumped into his chair like a big lump of pissy old Vile Prog with a paper held in front of his mean frowny face. They are all 13 years old emotionally sitting at the dinner table pouting when told no by mom or dad.

        • wmcb says:

          That’s what is so scary about this. These Vile Progs actually believe that it is RIGHT AND CORRECT to violate civil rights all over the place, so long as their motives are the Advancement of Glorious Society.

          They are not lying about that part. They think it’s perfectly justified, and are annoyed that anyone would think otherwise.

        • Lulu says:

          And that is why they are fascists. Any means justifies the ends. The only good thing is that they are being pushed to admit it.

        • One of the callers to the DR show was sputteringingy emotional about how it was right for the IRS to target the Tea Party groups because “they they they were obviously I mean obviously REPUBLICANS!”

          I could not believe my ears! And yes, you don’t have to ask, she was calling in from Cambridge MA. (probably a PhD perfessor or something like it).

          Disgraceful.

        • Lulu says:

          AKA good Germans.

        • wmcb says:

          darragh, I think a few of those teaparty groups may be looney tunes. Hell, I think ThinkProgress is looneytunes.

          Doesn’t matter. Either revoke tax exempt status for ALL such groups, or treat them equally. Whether you agree with them or not has Jack all to do with it.

        • angienc (D) says:

          This seems like an appropriate place to remind everyone that “Organizing for America” (the transformed “Obama for America” after the last election) has tax exempt status.

    • votermom says:

  17. HELENK says:

    Paul Ryan is great.
    did he just smack down McDermott or what

  18. HELENK says:

    per the dems
    IT IS ALL BUSH’S FAULT

    they have more excuses than a kid who did not do their homework . trying to deflect blame rather than fix problem

    they are disgusting

    • swanspirit says:

      The Democrats fail to mention that the Democrat appointees by Bush were made as an effort by him to be bipartisan . I wish someone would bring that up.

      • wmcb says:

        They never will. Just like they will never mention all the people of color and women that racist sexist Bush appointed to high office.

  19. Lulu says:

    They are putting the case workers names out there. They are going to have to be interviewed or testify. The Repubs are turning up the heat.

  20. votermom says:

    Here is Becky Gerritson of Wetumpka Tea Party (@TeaPartyBecky)

  21. conner43 says:

    Obamacare was Always just another redistribution scheme. Given my background in public health, I see this as a giant expansion of Medicaid, to include the working poor. At least in my home State of NY, a huge amount of Medicaid money goes to cover illegal immigrants and their American born children.. It is not lack of empathy but utter frustration, that leads me to believe that our immigration problem is causing much of our healthcare problem, including the abuse of E.R.’s..
    On top of that, companies like Walmart that give out Medicaid applications to their new hires are also massively abusing the system.

  22. wmcb says:

    That tool Lloyd Doggett is trying the “because 1 or 2 progressive groups got denied, we can ignore that HUNDREDS of conservative groups got jerked around.”

    Now he’s going into the history of every IRS abuse ever, just to muddy the waters.

  23. Lulu says:

    Naming names. Nothing like having your name associated with a Congressional hearing on government abuse.

  24. HELENK says:

    Rep Tiberi brought up a great example the IRS not only went after tax exempt groups, it targeted conservative groups that paid taxes. This is bigger then most people thought. when the video becomes available it is a must watch

  25. votermom says:

  26. votermom says:

  27. HELENK says:

    the dems are really not making themselves look good in this investigation. Do they understand that ALL Americans have the same rights and privileges not just their side?

  28. swanspirit says:

    Speaking of adding 2 and 2 this is freaking spine chilling

    Last month, State Police stepped up patrols at public water supplies after seven Muslims were caught trespassing at the Quabbin Reservoir in Belchertown. State Police are investigating, though they say “there is no evidence of any crime other than vandalism.” Huh? Isn’t cutting the locks from three separate access hatches located at approximately half-mile intervals along the aqueduct a crime? Police say that there is evidence of an attempt to cut a fourth lock.

    Locks cut to Boston water supply aqueduct, ‘drinking water does not appear to have been tampered with’ (thanks to Van)

    The padlocks to hatches of an aqueduct outside of Boston that supplies drinking water to the metropolitan area were found cut Monday, leading to local concerns after there was a trespassing incident.

    Officials say the drinking water does not appear to have been tampered with.

    Water has not been altered says Boston authorities after finding several locks to the aquaducts cut open photo D. Sharon Pruitt from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, USA

    The CBS affiliate is reporting the details, noting that three padlocks were cut from separate access hatches located at approximately half-mile intervals along the aqueduct. Police say there is evidence of an attempt to cut a fourth lock.

    State Police are investigating, though they say “there is no evidence of any crime other than vandalism.”

    The MWRA says it doesn’t appear anyone tried to tamper with the water supply and there does not appear to be any contamination or changes in water quality.

    Last month, State Police stepped up patrols at public water supplies after seven people were caught trespassing at the Quabbin Reservoir in Belchertown.

    The padlocks to hatches of an aqueduct outside of Boston that supplies drinking water to the metropolitan area were found cut Monday, leading to local concerns after there was a trespassing incident.

    Officials say the drinking water does not appear to have been tampered with.

    Water has not been altered says Boston authorities after finding several locks to the aquaducts cut open photo D. Sharon Pruitt from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, USA

    The CBS affiliate is reporting the details, noting that three padlocks were cut from separate access hatches located at approximately half-mile intervals along the aqueduct. Police say there is evidence of an attempt to cut a fourth lock.

    State Police are investigating, though they say “there is no evidence of any crime other than vandalism.”

    The MWRA says it doesn’t appear anyone tried to tamper with the water supply and there does not appear to be any contamination or changes in water quality.

    Last month, State Police stepped up patrols at public water supplies after seven people were caught trespassing at the Quabbin Reservoir in Belchertown.

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/06/locks-cut-to-boston-water-supply-aqueduct.html

  29. votermom says:

  30. DeniseVB says:

    Too bad unions didn’t get this scrutiny. Tea Parties don’t charge dues but do take donations to help defray expenses for rallies and room rentals for meetings. If there’s money left over, they’ll offer refreshments at the meetings. You can’t get more grassroots than that 🙂

    • wmcb says:

      Oh, they deliberately targeted the smallest, most local grassroots groups with tiny budgets. They thought by doing it that way, it would stay quiet. Going after the big Boys, like TeaPartyPatriots or something, would have made immediate waves because they have lawyers on retainer. Picking the little bitty local groups who can’t defend themselves was deliberate.

      It also says to me that you know what the Vile Progs fear most? Not the big Rove PACS. They fear ordinary, individual citizens being active and talking to their neighbors. They can deal with polished professional political opposition, but authenticity from average citizens going viral scares them shitless.

      • DeniseVB says:

        What resonated with me in the Gerritson video, that these are people who have never been politically active before. April 15, 2009 was the first “hey, let’s meet in the town square and wave our flags” type of event all across the country.

        A NON-political friend called me and said she wanted to do that after spotting a 1-inch announcement in the local paper the day before the event. She asked me to go with her because it was her first rally of any kind and was afraid of being arrested or something…lol. I was curious about this new movement, so I went figuring 10 or 15 people waving flags would be kinda fun. THREE FREAKING THOUSAND PEOPLE SHOWED UP in our tiny town square ! Here, there and everywhere in the country too that day!

        And a new movement was born. Eat it, Obots and vile progs 😀

      • angienc (D) says:

        Plus, they only needed less than 100,000 votes each in FL, VA, OH & NH to “swing” the election to Obama — why risk making it obvious by going after the big groups that really don’t impact turnout the way the local groups do?

  31. HELENK says:

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/06/the-friends-of-richard-windsor-part-3.php

    OMG we have a government of imaginary friends!!!!!!! Julia, Windsor and now we are finding out about others

  32. wmcb says:

    Holy Crap! That Rep Schock that wiped the floor with McDermott is this guy. Um….. wow. Also, how do the Vile Progs get away with continuing with the “old white men” meme when that hasn’t been true for a long time. I’m betting the average age of the GOP House is lower than the D House.

  33. angienc (D) says:

    This tweet sums it up:

  34. wmcb says:

    They really do think they are above the law. There are VERY clear laws about taking money from groups you regulate, yet Sebelius says this (from an AoS commenter)

    “Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius on Tuesday defended fundraising calls she has made on behalf of a group promoting President Obama’s healthcare law.
    Sebelius also said she does not believe federal law would prevent her from raising money from entities her department regulates.”
    —–

    Because F you, that’s why.

    • angienc (D) says:

      Oh yes, the magic vile prog word “believe” — she doesn’t *believe* the law prevents her from doing it. Thus the actual law doesn’t matter – she’s got faith that she’s doing the right thing.

  35. votermom says:

    New open thread up

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