Dylan Byers:
Obama holds off-record meeting with MSNBC hosts, liberal pundits
President Obama held an off-the-record meeting with MSNBC hosts and liberal pundits on Thursday, POLITICO has learned.
Present at the meeting: MSNBC’s Ed Schultz and Lawrence O’Donnell, Washington Post economics blogger Ezra Klein, Mother Jones Washington bureau chief David Corn, Talking Points Memo editor and publisher Josh Marshall, ThinkProgress editor-in-chief Judd Legum, Atlantic senior editor Garance Franke-Ruta, Salon political writer Brian Beutler and Fox News contributor Juan Williams.
The participants agreed to an off-the-record classification for the meeting, though sources familiar with President Obama’s remarks said that Williams later appeared on Fox News and cited some of the president’s remarks, which he attributed to administration officials.
The White House did not respond to a request for comment regarding the meeting.
A lot of people believe that the reason the United States lost the war in Vietnam was bad publicity. Their theory is that the “liberal media” turned the voting public against the war effort. This is why Bush I and Bush II put major efforts into controlling the media during the wars in Kuwait, Afghanistan and Iraq.
But what happened in Vietnam was not so much a failure in public relations as a failure of policy. The American public came to believe (correctly) that they had been misled by a president, that the war was a bad idea and that our military leaders were incompetent in the way they conducted the war.
Can you see where I’m going with this?
Obama lied to the American people. Obamacare is a bad idea. The Obama administration is incompetent. All the spin doctoring in the world will not cure those defects.
The Crawdad Hole 
If ObamaCare is Obama’s VietNam, than the 10 million plus people displaced by foreclosure is the Republicans Viet Nam. Oh wait, it’s ALL Obama’s fault.
The housing bubble was in large part the Dems fault (from Clinton/Greenspan on). But it was also Repubs fault. And the general economic bubbles and collapse was both parties fault. In economic terms, there’s very little difference between the parties.
Honk!!
And a young lawyer named Obama who helped Acorn sue Bank of America for racism for not approving mortgages to unqualified borrowers, because black? Easier quals created a demand, forced the bubble, then values plummeted. The foreclosures came from people who walked away from their payments. Some are still sitting in homes still underwater (negative equity) from the peak of the bubble, the rest were forced to short sell because of relocation requirements for jobs and such. Thanks to both parties, the American Dream was crushed. I just find it funny, then unknown Obama was at the beginning of it.
Go to http://www.zillow.com , enter your address, you can see how this all played out on their charts for your home, neighborhood and city comps. Unless you live in NYC, you’ll be lucky to get your Zestimate (which is basically the average of the recent sales in your neighborhood).
There were warnings back in 1999.
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html
(…)snip
Fannie Mae, the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.
In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates — anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.
(…)snip
In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980’s.
”From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,” said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ”If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.”
The Housing bubble is the fault of the Ivy indoctrinated elitists who run the banks looking to increase profits by writing and shuffling around bad loans. The lack of jobs is the result of the Ivy indoctrinated elitists who ship jobs overseas and encourage masses of illegal aliens to work cheap in the USA to maximize their profits. The Health care disaster, which is just beginning, is the result of the Ivy indoctrinated elitists who run insurance companies and other companies looking to profit from illness looking to increase their profits. All this damage was done to the American people and our country by a group of self appointed elitist people who arrogantly manipulate government for their own profit. There are Democrats and Republicans among them.
Word.
Developers and Wall Street made gazillions on the real estate bubble. Who donates to politicians baby? 😉
Where’s OWS when you need them? LOL. When I was trying to figure out their message (other than “just wait for it”), I felt they had more in common with the Tea Party than the establishment parties. Crony Capitalism mostly. Unfortunately, we couldn’t get the groups together, since the Tea Party peeps had to work.
squirrel….
trolls who are distracting from the topic of ocare are coming to the klown’s blog, so this is further evidence a huge disaster…
Sandy’s a PUMA and don’t think a fan of Obama, but sure he’s less of a fan of the GOP, which misguided progs like to blame for EVERYTHING wrong in their lives. The Tea Party is full of people like that once they opened their minds to both parties suck 😀 That is, I’ve met many former PUMAs who finally left the plantation. They’re my favorites.
Obama true believers do not know the difference between policy and public relations. They think they can sell anything. They can’t. They sold Obama as a fraudulent product or thing really. They are trying to do the same thing with Bammo-care. By bringing in the loons, propagandists, and shills of NBC they probably have killed the network (which may or may not be a zombie network anyway as they have almost no viewers but refuse to die). A growing number of the press is belatedly starting to report on just how detrimental, cruel, rent-seeking, and fake Obamacare really is. It is like watching a lightbulb go off over someones head when they finally catch on that they are the butt of the joke. This administration’s mantra that if we could just explain the wrecked car (or economy, or health insurance markets, etc) better and make the dummies understand their excuses and lies then it really doesn’t matter that they were robbing a bank when the car lost control and crashed. And another parliamentary trick by old dirty Harry just shows they can’t operate in the world the rest of us are required to navigate through life. What is next? They threaten to shoot our dogs if we don’t agree with Obama? It is delusional.
it’s like branding/rebranding, you can only do so much if the client continues to have bad customer service for instance, then all the rebranding in the world won’t help keep or get new clients. they will go down if they are not willing to actually change not just in name.
When they can’t make the spin work, they turn to fascism. Watch it get worse until Americans finally get a clue en masse and the R party gets real. That list of journo scum is made of up moral and ethical black holes.
If Pelosi and Gillabrand sputtering and whining on last weekends talkie-head shows are examples of the best spin the Democrats have of weaseling THE BIGGEST MESS IN THE WORLD! then all they have left is the boot heel of fascism and old dirty Harry is leading the way. Ending the filibuster was just the next step of “racism, shut up”. What are they going to do next? Pull the FCC license for any broadcaster than has a Republican on air? Raid more reporter’s homes? A growing resistance is brewing. Going Galt, Irish democracy, preference cascade are all semi-explanations of what is going on. Unorganized, stubborn, passive hatred is what the peasantry exhibits when abused and additional abuse doesn’t quell the resistance in the long run. Self appointed elites should be very afraid.
Honk!! Honk!! 🙂
I think they prefer the “boot heel of fascism” anyway, and I think the self-appointed elites are too stupid and self-isolating to be afraid. But you are right they should be very afraid.
what was astounding yesterday was all the hypocrisy including from the prezzy. do they not realize that everything is recorded and their words from 2005 came back immediately to show them as hypocrites. this just makes them look worse for 2014. the dems are just making themselves look worse and could lose all the seats they have in the senate because of all these highly visible decisions they are making which are hypocritical and not helping the american people.
They don’t care kanaughty. I just heard today mandatory signups’ are being extended til after the 2014 elections. I guess Obama waved his magic executive order wand or something. I’m also guess Team Kool Aid will have forgotten their losing the plans and doctors they like anyhow? Vote Democratic, We Care About The Stupids 😉
Just reading the list of those names frightens me….I can’t imagine watching Ed Schultz or Lawrence O’Donnell for even a minute…and they get their own presidential meeting….wow…something is dreadfully rotten in Denmark.
Being in college during the Viet Nam war, what I remember mostly is how many young people were gathered around the TVs watching the evening news….and the importance of “the body count” each evening. Was really the first war to be televised.
If the likes of Schultz, O’Donnell, etc, all from failing media outlets are the only ones you can depend on to present the story you want to hear then that’s a pretty good indication the situation has run off the rails. Were there any women from the media involved in this meeting or did the men in attendance decide that women don’t have an interest in health care?
true, where were the women, for sure their are some who have an audience like maddow. but of course it always comes back to the old boys club. but i don’t care because they are all wrong and their message won’t stick in american minds when their own pocket books are being affected by unaffordable health care.
It is nice to see the Journolister band back together again. I bet they got some big hits planned. Looking at Memeoradum this morning, I see everybody is singing in key.
Too bad they already used that stunt, growing numbers of the public are on to them, they killed their business model being propagandists, and it is too late to stop the preference cascade. No average person is reading their shit but they are reading their health insurance notices. Now they have pushed back the notification of premiums rates for 2015 until 11/15/2014. Don’t they know that businesses call months ahead for rates for budgeting purposes and the insurers give it to them? If an insurer won’t the businesses change carriers. They have a symbiotic relationship. This is the most ignorant bunch of boobs in a WH I have ever heard of. A health care executive said that when going to meetings at the WH they have to talk to people “they wouldn’t hire”.
Dreamers and wishful thinkers do not good government policy make. But then they aren’t capable of comprehending how bad they are at policy-making, so they go ahead and make horrible policy anyway, and can’t for the life of them figure out afterwards why everything turns to crapola. It’s a lot like Karaoke singers. Most have fun but slight appreciation of how poorly they sound.
Karaoke White House is too perfect a description. LOL.
it’s true, we got our notice that our plan was changing in october anyway (the company got bought out so they had to switch insurance companies). enrollment was from nov 1 until nov 22. so the government can hold it back, but companies can’t because they have to give time to their employees to pick a new plan… this won’t work, the midterms of 2014 will be damaged for the dems anyway, because employer plans and enrollment have to come out sooner anyway.
This is why they are such incompetent ignoranti. None in the WH have any kind of real world experience. Pushing the date back doesn’t mean the information will be pushed back. It is silly and stupid and playing peekaboo with premiums rates doesn’t work.
There is no more Fourth Estate. Not one bit of journalistic integrity. The “press” is just as responsible for the BS going on in this country as Teh Roolz Committee, Dean, Axelrove etc.
If they had done their damn jobs we wouldn’t be in this mess.
If Nixon and Watergate were going on now, Nixon would get away with it.
YEP!!! 😡
Agree.
About 95% agree. Except for the Nixon claim. (See below) Some exceptions, but most are locals like Don Surber in West-by-G-d-Virginia, and not nationally known. Mores-the-pity.
Re: Nixon. He was not a charmer. The media loves charmers, of whom they’ll forgive anything. See “Bill Clinton”. Nixon would still be trashed.
I will never understand the American obsession with JFK’s death.
I think every generation has a “moment.” Pearl Harbor for my parents. JFK for us. 9/11 for the next generation after me.
We will always wonder what “might have been.”
And of course, we wonder why. And if what we were told was truth.
That makes sense.
JFK has certainly given us a lot of political fan fiction …. wonder if he had lived? Here’s a peek at what might have been, most surprising, the Civil Rights bill may not have passed …..
http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/11/historys-favorite-guessing-game-what-if-jfk-had-lived/355359/
There’s another thought wave about how American politics would have played out had he served a full term, or two terms (no Pres. LBJ) and so forth. I remember reading another one where people picked the presidents who may have followed …. through now. Crack for political junkies 😀
Good one Denise!
Long ago my Dad had me read a book about LBJ. Vote rigging in Texas, corruption etc etc.
I have always wondered if LBJ was not somehow involved.
My moment was the Star Wars Christmas Special.
Yes, the truth and WHO is really calling the shots.
Votermom, I think I understand the managed mythology the Kennedy family created for the memory of JFK, and how it soothed the nation during that time.
But I gotta tell ya, I’m a little stunned by the lack of “feminist” comment during this day and age about Kennedy’s womanizing and WH interns , or about Jackie’s fitting the 50’s image of a proper wife who just indulged her husband’s sexual escapades outside of the marriage, and literally, did so inside the WH while she was gone.
None of the “feminists” say a thing….no analysis of the 50’s culture of expectations that wives would just ignore all that and live in la-la land of fabricated Camelot.
Given the 50 years since then that we’ve all lived through, and all the changes for women, I’m a little stunned that the so-called feminists stay so mum about it all.
Oh well.
As long as today’s feminists can prance around in their lingerie and stilettos displaying their empowerfulness they are happy. Maybe when they get too old for that they will develop some political will and awareness.
As far as the womanizing of powerful men goes, many women marry that sort of man for the life style and for the breeding of their children, they don’t care what the husband does and might actually prefer him to bang other women so long as he fulfills his contract with her. If devoted passionate love was never an expectation you aren’t concerned when it isn’t present.
Fair enough. But we all need to keep in mind that the Kennedy clan had a vested interest in creating the Camelot myth to protect the family name, and that much of it is untrue.
Bottom line: John F. Kennedy couldn’t keep it in his pants. And everyone working for him/associated with him, knew that.
Including Jackie.
Image over reality. Can we see now, why Teddie et al found Barak Obama appealing?
My problem is with the “who dunnit” portion. Lee Harvey Oswald just seems too weird and his shooting death two days later too convenient to pass my smell test. I was in law enforcement at the time, and the whole thing stunk to high heaven IMO. Plus the Warren Commission was a farce, which only increased the Stink-meter reading.
Gore, violence, glamor, sex, wealth all sell. I don’t mean to be rude but it always has amazed me that someone didn’t shoot JFK for fucking around with their wife, girlfriend or daughter. I guess it was different in the class system of the NE but he would have been dead even younger most other places. They were treated like garbage in the UK because the old man and sons acted like such hounds and not fit for decent company and were shunned.
They were also shunned in the UK because Kennedy’s father favored appeasement with Hitler. Roosevelt had no choice but to recall him. It’s why they came home.
That too but there were lots of Nazi sympathizers and appeasers running around then and even those did not want to socialize with the Kennedys.
when i watch videos of jackie, she is really the one of the couple that i really liked. i remember while growing up, she just wanted to remain elusive and not be political, so that made me even more fond of her. she seemed like a total introvert.
I have to agree. She was charming and lovely. gracious and kind.
She always said that the thing that mattered most to her was how she raised her children.
This is for Catness’ butler:
http://distractify.com/people/personal/agonizing-struggles-that-prove-cat-owners-are-the-best-people-ever/
Owning Cats Can Inflict Permanent Damage To Mental Health But Nobody Bothered To Warn Us.
Using the nuclear option , at this point , is like the Captain of the Titanic backing up the boat and hitting the iceberg again , just to make sure it sinks .
Amen Swan!! 🙂
that is such an awesome thought 🙂
Not sure who wrote this, but wsj op-ed is fuming at the filibuster getting nuked. Gonna copy the whole thing bec wsj sometimes gets funny about it’s paywall
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304791704579212213849755246
I wonder if the 51 votes to repeal Obamacare may not be a goal of those Dems who are up for re-election.
Merkley is a jerk. He doesn’t listen to constituents. He supported giving taxpayers’ money to Egypt. He asked the IRS to target Tea Party groups.
I would think they could get those 51 votes to dump Obamacare now and they should start working on that NOW.
This is why I think the Kool-aid is a viral brain eating disease. They just made repeal easier. Huh? Maybe it can be repealed next year and FU Harry say the red-state Dems.
i don’t even think ob annoys me more than reid. that dude needs to lose somehow.. i wish the repubs would put someone up against him who could actually win. maybe someone who is a vet a strong strong leader type with some gravitas…
Here’s another exercise in Alternative History had JFK lived, it includes the future Pres. elections and continued in the comments ….
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/an-alternative-history-exercise-what-if-jfk-hadnt-died/
Ah, religious zealotry. Ain’t it grand.
LOL. Like drawing a line in the sand with your toe.
Oh wait- or is it Towing the line- like on the old canal barges?
That is sarcasm btw. I know it’s Toe not Tow.
I have always liked both visuals.
Support the Troops ! Wait, What!?
http://hamptonroads.com/2013/11/report-dod-looking-closing-all-commissaries
While I haven’t shopped at a commissary in years, I know how important this is to the younger men and women, disabled and retireds to stay within their budgets. The threat to take away such benefits happens during every administration, but I have a feeling Obama’s will succeed. He’s just that intent in destroying the morale of the troops and the young families left to fend for themselves while the spouse is deployed.
Could the end of free healthcare be far behind ?
not to mention that while i was in high school (early 90’s) i had a lot of friends who were working their teenage jobs at the commisary. so it would mess up the youth economy too.
Especially at remote bases where there is very little job opportunity off-base. There’s a reason we give the military “benefits”, sucky duty stations too 😀
China announced they’re moving away from USD, including no longer stockpiling dollars. What’s that iceberg smashing sound you hear…
Crash!!!!!!! 😡
WOW! insane… i haven’t read this yet…
I saw that. Scariest thing I’ve read all week.
I know this is huffpost but an little background on the nuclear option and just who pushed for it
https://newsbusters.org/blogs/mike-ciandella/2013/11/22/journalism-union-helped-push-nuclear-option-huffpo-admits#main-content
funny story about the CWA.
in March of 1983, I was walking a picket line at Suburban Station in Philly. the commuter lines all along the NE corridor had gone on strike. I worked for NJT but it closer for me to walk the line in Philiy.
Here comes a SEPTA bus carrying CWA union people We were picketing against SEPTA. They were having their convention in Philly and staying at a hotel accross the Street from Suburban Station. Being the nice, quiet lady that I am, I grabbed one of the conductor on the line and went up and stood in front of the bus as CWA people were getting off. Here I am waving a picket sign. Wanting to know why as a union they were using SEPTA when another union was striking against their labor practices. It was a funny sight. They invited us to go into the hotel and talk to their leaders. Here I am marching through the lobby holding the sign up very high. The guy from the hotel asked to please lower the sign. We explained to the CWA leaders that the railroad part of SEPTA was on still on strike even though the bus drivers had settled and would they please contact and use another bus company during their stay. The gave me $60 to get coffee for the guys on the picket line. but still used SEPTA buses. so much for solidarity
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/11/22/ucla-students-say-professor-highlighting-spelling-and-punctuation-errors-is-racist-contributes-to-toxic-racial-climate/
this is beyond stupid. or why I could never become a teacher
my reaction to something this is a class would be to separate the class.
all those who want to learn and understand the spelling and punctuation are important in getting a job and keeping it sit over here. the rest of you sit over there and play your video games and practice how to fill out forms for welfare and do it quietly and do not disturb those who want to learn
ps
they should have been taught those things in grade school and at least by high school
Wow—sounds like the same crap I had to hear from the Black principal in the early 70’s when he told the English department that correcting spelling and punctuation was “insensitive” to student’s culture. We English teachers needed to “lighten up,” he said—-didn’t we understand Ebonics?
True story.
remember having a conversation about ebonics with two people I worked with when I first came to California
they could not answer my question. Is it that the student can not learn or is it the schools that are not teaching? Never did get a good answer
Sad 😦
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/21/seattles-newest-councilmember-urges-boeing-workers-to-seize-factories/
another ” not the sharpest tool in the shed” politician
i do think that boeing in washington state is getting stiffed by their head office in chicago. chicago knew they were hiring a union company and they continue to try to screw them out of their union benefits. so my idea was that boeing in washington state should buy themselves out and become employee owned. it sucks that they would lose their heritage and have to change their name, but i think boeing could do this and then maintain all these contracts because theirs are the plants where these planes can be made most efficiently compared to the other plants around the u.s. this city council ladies idea is totally a radical view of this idea that is out of hand. the common sense solution is an employee buy out/employer owned union company, not by subverting the law and doing some sort of uncalled for revolution. these people go way beyond what is called for in their ideas. have they ever heard of arbitration? why go so far into revolution when the solution could be way more amicable.
this is a great article and one reason why the o white house will have problems with the media doing whatever it was ob had this meeting with them. the media is livid right now with their lack of access to the president.
“Unlike media photographers, official White House photographers are paid by taxpayers and report to the president. Their job is to make Obama look good. They are propagandists – in the purest sense of the word.
The letter reminds Carney that Obama promised to run the most transparent administration in history. It argues that the restrictions “raise constitutional concerns” and amount to “arbitrary restraint and unwarranted interference on legitimate newsgathering activities.”
Journalists understand that the president’s family and national security events must be off-limits at times. Journalists also don’t object to the White House using social media; those are platforms as legitimate as televisions and print. The problem is that the Obama White House is simultaneously restricting access of independent media while flooding the public with state-run media.
Again, this is propaganda – utterly lacking a skeptical eye. The irony is that Obama is using technology that democratized and flattened the media to centralize and strengthen the powers an institution, The Presidency.
That was the sentiment behind Mills’ crack about Tass, according to people who attended the Oct. 29 meeting. Carney took offense.
“Oh, so now we’re like Stalin?” the White House press secretary replied, laughing at the veteran New York Times photographer.
Olivier Knox, a Yahoo reporter and long-time White House correspondent who attended the meeting with Mills, shot an angry look at Carney and said, “It’s not funny, Jay.””
http://www.nationaljournal.com/pictures-video/obama-s-image-machine-monopolistic-propaganda-funded-by-you-20131121
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/11/22/Cannon-Time-to-Pull-the-Plug-on-MSNBC
Sarah started something
🙂
http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_33728.php
another delay in obamacare. this one until after the 2014 elections
what’s the deal with this?
“Annual limits on cost-sharing are specified by Section 1302(c) of the Affordable Care Act; in addition, starting in 2014, deductibles are limited to $2,000 per year for individual plans, and $4,000 per year for family plans.”
if this is true then why are people’s deductibles for families like 10k on the new market places if they are not supposed to go up over $4000 a year. why are the aca marketplaces allowed to go against their own rules which say something as specific as not above $4000?
this law is shit when they can’t even obey their own law.
If Obamacare is so wonderful, why does Obama keep delaying it?
And why isn’t he on it? 😆
They all have no fucking clue. My husband has been putting off a surgery on his arm for years because of the deductibles and copays and coinsurance. That two grand deductible is not even the beginning of the story. The deductibles are going up as are the other sneaky things.
Many many people WITH insurance do not get needed care because of the after insurance costs. That is going to get worse.
I’ve put off a colonoscopy for the same reason – the bill after my husband got one was a rude shock – and we have the so-called “excellent” insurance.
Same here VM. Neither of us have had one. I can find a lot better ways to spend three grand. (or more)
Apparently it’s the anaesthesia that impacts the price a lot. Fine, it’s a delicate job that could kill you if done wrong. So I figure I’ll just wait until that camera pill goes down in price.
Colonoscopy should be covered as preventive, even if they find polyps during the procedure. If you’ve had the procedure done in the last year or so, you should have your provider resubmit it.
http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-real-beneficiaries-and-victims-of-obamacare/?singlepage=true
who wins and who loses with obamacare
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/11/132-countries-storm-out-of-u-n-global-warming-talks-not-offered-enough-money.php
about that global warming. not enough money warming poor countries pockets
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/59423
Cruz=noia and the senate jackasses.
Cruz must be something right
My own son fell for this:
Most of the commenters think she really said it.
So who are the stupid ones again?
This is really ironic:
Yeah, that’s the way most people married to native americans think…. stupid should hurt.
I front-paged this story.
real bad , 😦
Lo fo Bots.. 👿
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/11/lying-prostitute-crystal-magnum-convicted-of-murder/
I do so love KARMA, she is such a bitch
no rev al to be found
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/22/under-attack-on-all-sides-obama-democrats-return-to-ramming-speed/
dems see backtrack 2nd term is dead
Money quote:
ROFLSHIS
The Congressional offices could designate some of the staff to get around some of the problems. Most offices picked their older staff because of the cost to them. But there was a deadline and some of the same offices whining about it did not do what was recommended for their staff mostly because they ignored it or procrastinated past the deadline. It is their own fault for not getting their personnel shit done.
http://www.conservativeintel.com/2013/11/22/white-house-tries-to-defuse-an-obamacare-time-bomb/
just in the last 24 hours more things are coming out
http://eagnews.org/st-clair-county-4th-grade-book-says-white-voters-rejected-obama-because-of-race/
parents better start paying attention to what their children are being taught in schools today. does not look good tor the future of this country
Schools have changed a lot in the last 50 years. 😦