Do Progs Have a Moral Compass?


Is there really such a thing as truth? Do right and wrong truly exist? Or is everything relative?

Oliver Willis:

Thousands and thousands of Iraqis died because George W. Bush failed to lead. We turned the page on his failed presidency, but we still live in the world it created. No matter what our noble intentions may be, America cannot allow itself to throw more lives away because of one of the worst decisions an American president has made.

Oliver Willis and Kaili Joy Gray (aka “angrymouse”) are two prominent progressive bloggers.

Actually, the worst thing about Watergate was a pattern of abuse of power by Nixon and his henchmen. Watergate itself was a third-rate burglary. The investigation into Watergate and the attempt to cover it up exposed the sordid banality of corruption.

In politics everyone wants to claim the moral high ground. They frame their arguments based on the premise that they and they alone are right, and the other side is (of course) wrong. Progressives typically take it a step further and accused conservatives of being stupid and/or evil.

I agree that invading Iraq was a bad idea. I’m not quite so sure it was immoral. Saddam Hussein was an evil man who oppressed his own people and invaded his neighbors. His sons were even worse. Iraq was a regional threat to peace and to the stability of the supply of oil which we depend on.

But don’t believe the invasion was strategically necessary. Saddam had had his teeth pulled during the first Gulf War. We did not need to invade to keep him contained indefinitely. War was unnecessary in 2003. Even worse it would create a mess we could not simply walk away from.

But we DID invade. Go ahead and blame Bush for that. I do. Once we invaded, however, everything changed. The Pottery Barn rule took effect. For moral reasons we needed to clean up the mess before we could leave. For strategic reasons we needed to leave Iraq with a stable and sustainable government that was not a regional threat. We succeeded in the former but we failed in the latter. Barack Obama gets a big chunk of the blame for that failure.

The real issue isn’t who is to blame, it is what we should do now. Far too many progressives have taken the position that since it was all Bush’s fault we should just let it burn. That’s immoral.

Even if we are powerless to do anything we should not pretend that what is happening is not a problem. People are dying and our strategic interests are threatened. If we don’t deal with it our children and grandchildren will have to find a solution to a problem that will likely have grown and spread.


Is the current IRS scandal worse than Watergate?

What difference does it make which one is worse? The current IRS scandal is a clear abuse of official power. Does corruption have to be worse than some earlier corruption by the opposing party before it is wrong?

Are Obama’s lies okay because Bush’s lies were bigger?

Corruption is corruption. Corruption, dishonesty, abuse of power, cronyism, invasion of privacy and all the other ways that government officials misbehave are wrong regardless of what party they belong to or what policies they support.

I am really sick of all the moral relativism mixed with partisanship displayed by progressives these days.

Don’t they have a moral compass? didn’t anybody ever tell them that two wrongs don’t make a right?

About Myiq2xu - BA, JD, FJB

I was born and raised in a different country - America. I don't know what this place is.
This entry was posted in Klown Musings, Shit That Pisses Me Off, Stupid Should Hurt, Tribalism, Vile Progs and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

80 Responses to Do Progs Have a Moral Compass?

  1. DeniseVB says:

    I stumbled across this article from Sept 2008 …. looks like Obama’s been successful afterall, just not in the interest of our country.

    Yeah, too bad the media was falling all over themselves vetting the wrong person….Sarah Palin.

  2. lyn says:


  3. The Klown says:
  4. The Klown says:

    Where is Lurch, anyway?

    Secretary of State John Kerry “should be on a plane right now for Baghdad,” former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker said Tuesday.

    “The focus has been on the conflict, that is indeed serious, but, you know, diplomacy is what is crucial right now,” Crocker said on “CBS This Morning.” “We need to work with the Iraqis at the highest level,” which, he said, entails having Kerry urge Iraq’s leaders to pursue a national unity government. …

    The Obama administration should have had more high-level diplomatic engagement with Iraq, he argued Tuesday, and emphasized the U.S. must now respond with urgency.

    “We are hard-wired into their political system. We helped create it. We can’t walk away from it,” Crocker said.

    “I would have preferred since 2011 to see us more deeply and intensively engaged at the highest levels of government. I don’t think it’s too late, but we better move now.

  5. piper says:

    Brought up my earlier comment –
    I can’t fathom how people can still like this man and praise him incessantly when he’s done nothing but destroy so much in America, people and our standing in the world. People have no real idea what it’s like to live under communism or any oppressive regime.
    Maybe there really is a borg which absorbed all common sense and reasoning. Walking away shaking my head.

  6. The Klown says:
  7. The Klown says:
  8. driguana says:

    Wow…this really resonated with me this rainy, South Florida morning….gonna ponder for a bit….try to think about what’s right and wrong in my own life.

  9. The Klown says:
  10. The Klown says:
  11. leslie says:

    “Are Obama’s lies okay because Bush’s lies were bigger?”

    Don’t ask the progs. I have friends who taught their children, “2 wrongs don’t make a right”. Yet when I pose your question to them, they have multiple excuses to follow bronco anywhere, while blaming Bush, or Clinton (either), or any number of others for Obama’s lies. Saturday, at a family gathering, I said I wished Romney had been elected. I’m surprised I wasn’t asked to leave. Only one person (oddly enough my ex-husband’s wife) supported what I was saying. And she was shocked by my statement as well.

    • Propertius says:

      I think Obama should be impeached. I thought Bush should have been impeached. I’d like to see them both in adjoining cells at the Florence Supermax for violations of the War Crimes Act of 1996, and I’d like to see both major political parties go the way of the Whigs. I think the denizens of Democratic Underground and Free Republic should be sent to a desert island with a varied selection of small arms with which they can resolve their differences without involving the reasonable citizens of this country.

      • DeniseVB says:

        I think we should term limit the Pres to one term, or one 6 year term, and ban them from fundraisers, let the vP do those.

        Also make their home of record when elected the furthest we’d pay for vacations. If they go beyond those miles, they pay for that.

        It’s just gotten insane what we spend on their lifestyles and politics that have nothing to do with running the country.

        We got Bush from Clinton fatigue, got Obama from Bush fatigue.

        And I’d watch that DU v Freepers on pay t.v. !

        • leslie says:

          way OT . . . . . I watched part of the Brazil/Mexico soccer game today. (I’m home from work today.) The goalie from Mexico (Ochoa) was AMAZING. I only saw about 20 minutes, but it was at the end and it was exciting. The next time Mexico plays, I’ll try to tape it if I’m not home. Funny, I am not interested in the least in the World Cup, but I’m telling you the goalie was something else. I understand he’s playing without a contract and 2 teams from UK are now interested in signing him.

          • driguana says:

            I agree. I’m not much of a soccer fan either but the USA vs. Ghana game was pretty good and Brazil vs Mexico was quite exciting. Still, when they’re not exciting they are more excruciating than a scoreless baseball game (and I used to be a big baseball fan). I think it’s kind of funny how much cheering and groaning goes on for a missed shot…and there are more missed shots in a game than made ones.

        • Propertius says:

          And I’d watch that DU v Freepers on pay t.v. !

          On second thought, that might not be too interesting. Something tells me there’s a real mismatch in weapons skills, although I suppose the DU-ers could just bore their opponents to death.

  12. DandyTIger says:

    Time to bring out the “leave Obama alone!!” poster. Congratulations vile progs, you’re exactly as pathetic as the 25% who thought Bush was the greatest president after all his failures.

  13. The Klown says:
  14. The Klown says:


    Yeah, I’m contented out at the moment.

    I did want to take a moment and consider the live issues we’re dealing with…

    The administration admits ObamaCare isn’t cutting health insurance costs “by $2,500/family”, it’s raising them.

    Iraq is falling to pieces.

    Thousands and thousands of children are piling up on our southern border because Obama violated the law with his executive amnesty and now everyone thinks they can come and stay here.

    The Russians are still mucking around in Ukraine.

    The IRS is pushing an idiotic story about losing Lois Lerner’s emails. Via John Ekdahl, yep, it’s a cover-up.

    The administration stopped coming up with new stories about the Bowe Bergdahl swap because people stopped paying attention when Iraq flared up.

    The VA still needs to be held accountable for killing vets, retaliating against whistle-blowers and oh yeah, the system needs to be fixed to serve vets.

    The House Benghazi select-committee is getting going.

    And the economy is shrinking.

    But other than that (and a few dozen other major problems), Obama is the smartest man ever and he’s doing a bang-up job!

    Heck of a job America! Heck of a job!

    Elect Hillary – she’ll fix everything!

  15. The Klown says:
  16. The Klown says:
  17. The Klown says:

    From October 2012:

    Suspect in Libya Attack, in Plain Sight, Scoffs at U.S.

    BENGHAZI, Libya — Witnesses and the authorities have called Ahmed Abu Khattala one of the ringleaders of the Sept. 11 attack on the American diplomatic mission here. But just days after President Obama reasserted his vow to bring those responsible to justice, Mr. Abu Khattala spent two leisurely hours on Thursday evening at a crowded luxury hotel, sipping a strawberry frappe on a patio and scoffing at the threats coming from the American and Libyan governments.

  18. The Klown says:
  19. Propertius says:

    I agree that invading Iraq was a bad idea. I’m not quite so sure it was immoral.

    Maybe not, but by the Nuremberg Principles, which we ourselves wrote after WWII, it was a war crime (specifically a “crime against the peace”, a violation of Principle VIa)):

    (i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
    (ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).


    We hanged people for that, lest anyone forget. We can argue about whether it was immoral or not, but it was almost certainly illegal (AUMF notwithstanding).

    Saddam Hussein was an evil man who oppressed his own people and invaded his neighbors.

    And, as President Bush said, “he tortured his own people.” Thank God we were around to stop that and take on the responsibility of torturing them ourselves. Yeah, he’s dead and the world is probably a better place for his absence, but what about the Iraqi civilians who got caught in the middle? What about our own troops?

    His sons were even worse. Iraq was a regional threat to peace and to the stability of the supply of oil which we depend on.

    The whole family were absolute psychopathic bastards – there’s no doubt about that.

    Territorial threat? Well, let’s see. IIRC, over the last 60 years Iraq has attacked Israel, Iran, and Kuwait. The Israelis seem to be able to take care of themselves, and the Baathists weren’t in charge then anyway. 😉 We encouraged and supplied Iraq when they attacked Iran (so we hardly have grounds to object to that) and, lest we forget, we told them in advance that we didn’t care if they invaded Kuwait. Specifically, April Glaspie (our Ambassador to Iraq) said:

    We have no opinion on your Arab – Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.

    (see for the full transcript of their meeting).

    Iraq was a mostly secular buffer state simultaneously blocking Iran’s territorial ambitions on one side and the expansion of radical Sunni Islam on the other – a fact that two successive Presidents seem to have been too dim to understand.

    They did, however, commit two cardinal sins in the eyes of the Saudis:

    1) They were economic competitors, and
    2) They weren’t a bunch of raving Wahabbi fanatics

    And since US foreign policy seems to be devoted to appeasing the Saudis, Iraq had to go.

  20. DeniseVB says:

  21. 1539days says:

    I hold the very unpopular opinion that there were valid reasons to go into Iraq. Worse yet, I blame the lack of support in the international community for the collapse of the war effort as well as the collapse of an Iraqi government.

    There are always reasons not to fight in a war. There are some solid theories out there that the US did not have to fight in WW2 to achieve a good outcome. George Washington’s farewell address argued against getting involved with other countries. Eventually, we would fight a war against Muslim pirates in the early 19th century as they attacked US interests.

    It’s easy to judge wars as good or bad after the fact. The reality is that the War on Terror is constantly being fought to a draw. We use spying and security officers to find the guilty among the citizens. We fight conventional wars because we don’t want to nuke cities and kill thousands of civilians. War is ultimately a matter of will. The country had it in 2003 and lost it a few years later.

  22. The Klown says:
  23. The Klown says:

    CNN panel unloads on Hillary for trivializing rape:

  24. The Klown says:
  25. The Klown says:
  26. The Klown says:

    James Rosen Grills State Dept. Designated Liar On Why It Took So Long To Capture Benghazi Terrorist:

    • leslie says:

      Every time I see/hear her, I want to take a bar of soap and shove it into her mouth and then tape it shut. She is just smarmy and I still say (another commenter notwithstanding), it is difficult for me to consider anyone who calls herself “Jen” a serious spokesperson for any administration. She is not a cocktail waitress – at least not that I know of.

  27. The Klown says:
  28. elliesmom says:

    This is sort of on topic. Hillary has had a couple of tough weeks. It’s clear the press isn’t going to cover for her as they have for Obama. She’s been struck by what should be friendly fire for a Democrat. It’s becoming clear the ” progressive” wing of the Democratic Party would like Elizabeth Warren to be their candidate. She has a dubious past, little experience, and is a gaffe machine. When she ran for the Senate in MA, the Boston Globe covered up for her a lot. The more conservative Boston Herald and Boston talk radio were the ones covering her imaginary Cherokee relatives and her practicing law w/o a license. For her to win the presidential election, she’s probably going to need the same treatment by the press as Obama gets. Will she get it? If she doesn’t, I think she’ll be relatively easy to beat by a Republican with half a brain who thinks before he speaks, and there are a couple of them around. But if she gets the Obama treatment, we might find ourselves electing another liar with no experience.

    • votermom says:

      I think Biden runs. I mean, why not? He’s VP, he’s arrogant, he’s vicious, he “predicted” dividing Iraq up into 3 years ago – I think he’ll run.

      • 1539days says:

        Biden runs a lot. I just wonder if he can get the nomination.

        • votermom says:

          It will be fun to see Hillary & Biden battle it out. Of course with our luck then some shiny blank slate comes in and grabs the nom.

          • elliesmom says:

            I think that’s Warren. Hillary and Biden will be fighting over the same voters. But the Obots don’t want either one of them. They want Lizzie.

      • Sonrisa says:

        I agree. Biden has been running for Prez for years but never made it past the first few primaries. Now he’s the sitting VP & just like Mondale back in 1984, he’s gonna leverage that into a presidental run, despite there being better candidates out there.

  29. threewickets says:

    This would be a great year to challenge incumbents with a radio plus twitter campaign like Dave Brat. There may be more surprises in store for November.

Comments are closed.