Are Secular Liberals Religious Fanatics?


WMCB has been talking about this:

How liberalism became an intolerant dogma

At the risk of sounding like Paul Krugman — who returns to a handful of cherished topics over and over again in his New York Times column — I want to revisit one of my hobby horses, which I most recently raised in my discussion of Hobby Lobby.

My own cherished topic is this: Liberalism’s decline from a political philosophy of pluralism into a rigidly intolerant dogma.

The decline is especially pronounced on a range of issues wrapped up with religion and sex. For a time, electoral self-interest kept these intolerant tendencies in check, since the strongly liberal position on social issues was clearly a minority view. But the cultural shift during the Obama years that has led a majority of Americans to support gay marriage seems to have opened the floodgates to an ugly triumphalism on the left.

The result is a dogmatic form of liberalism that threatens to poison American civic life for the foreseeable future. Conservative Reihan Salam describes it, only somewhat hyperbolically, as a form of “weaponized secularism.”


From the dawn of the modern age, religious thinkers have warned that, strictly speaking, secular politics is impossible — that without the transcendent foundation of Judeo-Christian monotheism to limit the political sphere, ostensibly secular citizens would begin to invest political ideas and ideologies with transcendent, theological meaning.

Put somewhat differently: Human beings will be religious one way or another. Either they will be religious about religious things, or they will be religious about political things.

With traditional faith in rapid retreat over the past decade, liberals have begun to grow increasingly religious about their own liberalism, which they are treating as a comprehensive view of reality and the human good.

They aren’t just getting religious, they are getting downright fanatical. As with all religions, the fundamental beliefs of modern liberalism look ridiculous to outsiders. But that doesn’t matter to liberals because THEY believe it.

Obamanism is just one sub-sect of liberalism, with Obama as prophet. His first campaign sure didn’t lack for religious imagery, did it?

“A confidence man knows he’s lying; that limits his scope. But a successful shaman believes what he says — and belief is contagious; there is no limit to his scope.” – Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land

Obama messiah

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104 Responses to Are Secular Liberals Religious Fanatics?

  1. swanspirit says:

    The Vile progs are as fundamentalist as any religious they despise ; they meet the definition perfectly . :

    fundamentalism has come to be applied to a broad tendency among certain groups, mainly, although not exclusively, in religion. This tendency is most often characterized by a markedly strict literalism as applied to certain specific scriptures, dogmas, or ideologies, and a strong sense of the importance of maintaining ingroup and outgroup distinctions[4] [5] [6] [7] , which can lead to an emphasis on purity and the desire to return to a previous ideal from which it is believed that members have begun to stray. Rejection of diversity of opinion as applied to these established “fundamentals” and their accepted interpretation within the group is often the result of this tendency.[8]

    • The Klown says:

      Heretics and apostates are despised more than heathens. Historically there has been more hostility between the various Christian sects than there has been between Christianity and other religions.

      • elliesmom says:

        I think the people most despised by Christians are atheists. They are more forgiving of people who choose to worship their god in a different way than they do than of someone who refuses to worship their god at all. As long as you believe in a monotheistic religion, they rationalize that you believe in the same god they do. If you were a believer but have left the church, they still hope you’ll come back.

        • foxyladi14 says:

          Before you die Come back. 🙂

        • WMCB says:

          I think some of that is that too many modern atheists are so solidly welded to the Left, and its war on tradition and religion, that they get associated with that.

          I draw a huge line between regular atheists (like you, like my husband) and atheists who want to rip the gold crucifix off every neck in sight.

        • Constance says:

          Most of the Christians I know just feel sorry for atheists. As far as people from different sects of Christianity go they seem to feel that people evolve toward being a better Christian and while other sects may be somewhat misguided they are at least trying to grow as Christians and people.

          • elliesmom says:

            I don’t know about that. The last time a specific date was given for the rapture to occur I offered to take care of any pets that were left behind, and there was plenty of hate spewed my way. I would think someone who believed they were leaving their earthly body behind would want their pets in the hands of someone who would love them.

          • Constance says:

            You can find extremists in any group if you look hard enough. I am talking about the run of the mill Christians I’ve been around. I lean more toward Pagan type beliefs but I enjoy Bible study and I haven’t had any problem with main stream Christians. Of course they leave me out of some of their group gatherings but I’m good with that.

          • 1539days says:

            I have no idea what your intentions were, but it does come off as mockery.

          • elliesmom says:

            Why would it be mockery if you really believed it? I wasn’t offensive in my offer at all. I just said I knew I would be left behind, and if they let me know, I’d take care of their pets. If I had made fun of their belief, that would be different, but I never did. If they inferred that I was mocking them, then they must believe the idea is mockable. I got one very sweet note from someone who wanted me to convert while there was still time because she wanted me to come, too. She’s a true believer.

        • elliesmom says:

          You know, I’ve been thinking about your suggestion that I might have been mocking them. I was just stating what I know to to be fact. Either I’m right. There’s no god, and therefore, no rapture. We would all get up the next morning and continue on as if nothing had happened because nothing did. Or they’re right, and my lack of belief means I get left behind. Maybe I was asking them if their belief was solid enough to make plans for the animals they would be leaving behind, but I wasn’t making fun of them. If I had been making fun of them, I would have asked for their bank account numbers.

      • John Denney says:

        OTOH, the Baptist pastor at the church I attend enrolled his son in a Lutheran high school hosted on the property of a Greek Orthodox church.

    • Lulu says:

      The grunts and functionairies may be fundamentalists but the leaders are in it for the money and the power. Example in this article: “However, I leave the post with great misgivings about the power and irresponsibility of – to coin a phrase – the Green Blob.”

      “By this I mean the mutually supportive network of environmental pressure groups, renewable energy companies and some public officials who keep each other well supplied with lavish funds, scare stories and green tape. This tangled triangle of unelected busybodies claims to have the interests of the planet and the countryside at heart, but it is increasingly clear that it is focusing on the wrong issues and doing real harm while PROFITING handsomely.”

      All of these “save the world, children, oceans, kitties, snails, etc” have really enormous salaries, stock options, bonuses or campaign war chests. Every single one. And they get the easily gulled fundie Vile Prog, Vile Greenie, Vile whatever to do the dirty work.

      • WMCB says:

        It’s not unusual for the leaders of a insane sect to be utterly cynical and enriching themselves on the backs of true believers. Kind of reinforces the whole “it’s a religion” view, doesn’t refute it.

      • driguana says:

        Finding this more and more true and to the point. They are all little cultic offshoots of the liberal branch and those who perpetrate them are definitely in it for the money…which they usually say they despise…ironic and hypocritical.

    • WMCB says:

      Exactly. The whole idea of pluralism, marketplace of ideas, live-and-let-live, etc has utterly disappeared from the modern Left. I mean GONE, barely a trace of it anymore.

      And the practitioners keep flailing themselves (and us) into more and more stern expressions of purity. We’re in “How many angels can dance on the head of a racist/sexist pin” territory now.

      • Constance says:

        “The whole idea of pluralism, marketplace of ideas, live-and-let-live, etc has utterly disappeared from the modern Left. I mean GONE, barely a trace of it anymore”

        I really notice this in the $15. an hour minimum wage order and other business decrees by Progs who have never employed anyone. So if they want to have fast food workers paid $15. and hour open a store that sells fast food and pay everyone $15. an hour. Customers can shop there if they want to. Same with every other kind of business. They don’t need to control every business in the city.

        Of course I’m still pissed off that my gym is now closed in the middle of the day and my local diner is now only open exactly 8 hours a day. Thanks $15. and hour wage!

  2. The Klown says:
    • Lulu says:

      The media doesn’t represent the public. I think we may have reached a tipping point in the media’s lack of influence with the general public. They are looking dazed and confused these days. The media flogged the unaccompanied minor children at the Mexican border for all they were worth and the public opinion is going the wrong way. It is now 63% send them home up from 59% in a week. Propaganda only goes so far for so long. I haven’t seen any polls on the Israeli-Palestinian stuff. The media only talks to themselves in their echo chamber then is surprised. As a member of the public I don’t give a rat’s behind what the media think or a “media war”. Give me facts media and shut up.

    • WMCB says:

      I am still seeing people who say that the reason people are pro-Israel is because the press has brainwashed us into seeing only Israel’s side.

      Seriously. After years of hearing NOTHING but “the poor poor oppressed Palestinians” out of the media, these morons still adamantly insist that the media is shilling for da Jews.

      • The Klown says:

        My sympathies for the Palestinians are negated by the use of terrorism. They need a leader like Ghandi who will stop using violence and try to genuinely make peace.

        • Constance says:

          Very true. All they have gotten is leaders who don’t want to solve the problem because they would lose power. The Palestinian leadership does not act in the best interest of the people it is supposed to represent.

        • WMCB says:

          Yes. I do support them having a state, but so long as they keep electing leaders whose stated idea of “a state” is one with the power to wipe Israel off the map, they will be viewed as not honest brokers by me.

      • Lauren says:


  3. The Klown says:
    • Lulu says:

      Push back from public schools is stiff for the “unaccompanied minors” flooding public schools this fall. He needs some “happy” stories to blunt the blind fury coming in September. Are they going to give away some 50 cent paperback books to divert from thousands of kids sitting in tent classrooms displaced by his imports? Good luck with that.

  4. DeniseVB says:

    I always enjoy reading someone’s journey from the Left to Center and this was a goody….wordy but enlightening…..

    It definitely fits the topic 😉

  5. The Klown says:
    • Lulu says:

      If you are bad at crisis it doesn’t really matter how good you are at lying or “communicating”. Bad is bad. Put a bow on it and it still is bad. I think rather than “crisis communications” it should be “failure communications”. Calling a failure a crisis is just more word hoodoo.

      • Mary says:

        Like putting lipstick on a pig…..still a pig. (Wasn’t that one of Obama’s favorite phrases?)

        • swanspirit says:

          I still won’t use that expression because he used it on Sarah Palin , and in such a smarmy way . He used it , directed it at her , and then denied it like the scum sucking slime he is . And oh yes , the Vile Progs loved it . What a window into his personality .

        • DeniseVB says:

          I remember Obama gaffed his ‘lipstick on a pig’ joke trying to make fun of Sarah’s “difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? lipstick”. At the time, she was stealing his thunder and probably the day she moved, rent free, in his head 🙂

  6. The Klown says:
    • Lulu says:

      Glenn Beck asks border patrol chief: “can Texas secure the border?”
      Texas isn’t supposed to you dumb attention seeker. It is an international border! Not a border with Oklahoma! Is Texas a country now? If yes tell us and we can go Israeli on Mexico’s butt. We have done it TWICE! Three if you count Pancho Villa. Why does a stupid &@(% like this ask dumb questions like this? Why isn’t Obama securing an INTERNATIONAL BORDER as required by Article IV Sec 4? Would he just sit on his ass if there was a naval invasion of NYC? What if Canada decided they wanted the timber in Maine and just drove some big equipment over and started flooding the place with loggers and tromping around on everyones property? I bet Bronco would need to think about it for a few months. Sorry Maine. That’s your local problem. Don’t chase the poor logger children with axes.

      • elliesmom says:

        I’m not a Glenn Beck fan, but I sort of see the point to his question. It’s like “The Little Red Hen Story” we tell children. Texas (and the other border states) keep asking the federal government to do its job. They keep refusing. So do you live in the mess that the people in government in Washington can basically ignore because they don’t live and work near the border, or do you do the job yourself? Before you go that route, though, it’s not strange to ask if it is a job you can do yourself. Left to deal with the border crossing crisis mostly on their own, can the border states effectively close the border if it’s in their own best interest to do so? Should they have to? Of course, not.

        • jeffhas says:

          Well, there’s always the option of Texas securing the border on their own, with whatever mercs they need to hire, then bill the Federal Govt. because they failed to do their job.

          This whole ‘Federal Government’s Responsibility to secure the Border’ question is a complete farce – Of course it is their responsibility, but they don’t want to do it! This failure is by design – it’s meant to keep a constant flow of Dem voters coming through the gates and eventually tip a BIG Red State to Blue. How are the Dems to get a permanent Majority if they cannot tip the scale?

        • Mary says:

          Didn’t California finish their border fence on their own without federal help? The fence is really why illegals are not flooding over their border—they’re going into neighbor states instead.

        • Constance says:

          Load the illegals directly onto buses or trains and send them to DC then let them go. If having illegals roaming around isn’t a problem then DC should welcome several hundred thousand of them. If they find it a problem they might be motivated to act to stop it when they have to deal with the problems they create.

        • John Denney says:

          Not only does Obama not secure the border, but he actively opposes border state efforts to do so.

      • Kathy says:

        Good analogy

      • foxyladi14 says:


  7. WMCB says:

    I like this. It’s not that Obama has a great hand, here. That’s not the point.

    • The Klown says:

      Obama couldn’t beat Putin in a game of poker even if he had a royal flush.

      • WMCB says:

        All of the brouhaha and scaremongering over Putin has zippo to do with freedom, or Ukraine, or anything they say it does.

        It is about protecting the dollar as the reserve currency. That’s what almost all geopolitics today is about. It’s why some conflicts are “a crisis”, and others ignored. Russia, along with China and others, is actively trying to create an alternative to the dollar. It’s what Iraq was trying to do with their “petrodollars” before we invaded.

        But TPTB of course can’t admit that if the world starts trading in other than dollars, the USA is royally fucked. And that we will interfere, apply pressure, meddle, do anything, including going to war, to prevent it happening.

        • WMCB says:

          Oh, and I truly don’t mind anyone supporting that – just be honest about it. Be forthright that you think that the USA as the primary world power is, if not perfect, still the best outcome for the world, and better than anyone else being there (because someone WILL be.) And that superpower position needs to be defended.

          Be honest, and don’t fall into the neocon “bringing democracy to the world” hypocritical BS.

          • John Denney says:

            Without the premise that all men are created equal and endowed with certain unalienable rights, democracy is only mob rule.
            “Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner. Freedom is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.” – Benjamin Franklin

          • WMCB says:

            Yes. You either have Nature’s God (or some stand-in for him in the guise of a moral code that is not to be assailed) or you have might makes right and get what you can.

            Democracy, or even a Republic, without a cultural moral code that is almost universally accepted, is a recipe for chaos and decay. A Constitution is merely a peice of paper in the absence of a populace that actually holds those ideals.

          • Monster from the Id says:

            Why do you assume that at least one superpower must exist?

  8. foxyladi14 says:

    Nothing about our own Wuss n chief!!! 😆

  9. The Klown says:

    John Kerry tells Candy Crowley shes aiding Terrorists’ Publicity Effort!!!:

  10. WMCB says:

  11. mothy67 says:

    Ithink religion is sort of a short cut. So many lessons to teach a kid. The bible is a handy guide. Prodigal son? Stations of the cross? Guilt can be a positive and powerful tool. Shame is very different. My monster has some serious perfection issues. A B is the end of the world. I am lacking when it comes to dealing with that. Yet there is a good story about this fellow carrying timber on his back that fell 3 times and had to get a little help from his posse. I love the ritual of a mass. Holy water, incense, kneeling standing singing. The moment when you turn and shake the hand of the people near you. I do not believe some guy lived in the belly of a whale or a snake was hocking apples. No pearly gates. No afterlife. For me being Catholic has more to do with personal responsibility. Hard when I was young I could never be carefree.
    The climate change people seem to me they are trying to fill a void . Whole movement is zealotry. But it lacks the stories. No Vetonica’s veil no Judas Iscatiat. Empty shell attempting to manage people.

    • elliesmom says:

      Teachers use narratives to illustrate the points they are trying to make all of the time. One of the things you hear a lot from 13 year olds is “That’s not fair!” Teaching kids the difference between fairness and justice is hard. There are a lot of good Bible stories that illustrate the point very well. I think religious texts have a place in the education of our children. I see no reason to kick them out, but believing that the moral tenets of the Christian faith are good is different than believing there’s a supernatural being who sits in judgment of us all. For someone who doesn’t believe in that being it’s like only obeying the law because you’e afraid of getting caught instead of just doing it because it’s the right thing to do. There’s a lot to be said for the fellowship a church offers, but there are other places to find it that don’t require I suspend rational thought. But if you don’t believe in an afterlife, you’re not a Christian. It’s kind of what their whole belief system is based on.

      • mothy67 says:

        But I want my cake and I want to eat it too. Who died and made you grinch. I get what you are saying. I do buy into all the ecclesiastical stuff during the 3 rd period of a tied hockey game. The pope pales in comparison as to how pious I am during playoffs.

        • elliesmom says:

          I’m not the grinch. lol Your priest is. I’ve asked several members of the clergy if I can be a Christian if I believe in the moral teachings of their church but not in the resurrection of Christ and life ever after. Every single one of them has said no unequivocally.

          • mothy67 says:

            Well that sucks. Seriously I will always be a wee bit tortured by religion. I went to Catholic school and was an altar boy. Part of who I be. My favorite book is Of Human Bondage. Some people get to live entire lives without question. Lucky them.

          • WMCB says:

            Well, they were correct. I’d have no objection to you attending and enjoying, not at all. But no, I wouldn’t call you a Christian, because that involves something metaphysical, not just logical assent to rules. That’s not being a grinch, that’s applying the normal, 2000 year old, correct definition to what a Christian *is*. You wouldn’t meet the definition.

            My husband, BTW, is a atheist who thinks that Christian morality (in the broad sense, not talking about being a damn puritan) is a generally sensible way to run society. Decent balance of justice and mercy, very adaptive for stable family formation, passing on of culture, etc.

          • elliesmom says:

            I agree with your husband. But for a lot of people that just isn’t enough. I don’t think since I reached adulthood, I have ever tried to talk anyone out of their religious beliefs. I talked a priest into letting me be someone’s godmother because he had nothing to fear.from me. I can safely attend church for the big holidays, weddings, and funerals, but taking my husband’s place at a fundraiser because he was sick was a step too far for some unless I sign up for Bible class. I’ve taken a course “the Bible as Literature” and totally enjoyed it, but it wasn’t taught at church.

      • John Denney says:

        “A true opium of the people is a belief in nothingness after death – the huge solace of thinking that for our betrayals, greed, cowardice, murders we are not going to be judged.”

        ― Czesław Miłosz, in his Nobel Laureate acceptance speech

        • elliesmom says:

          Yes, but we all know what a Nobel prize is worth. 😉

          • The Klown says:

            $1 million cash

          • elliesmom says:

            I was going for the flip answer. What I would have said if I had responded honestly is a moral code based on the fear of divine retribution hasn’t yet reached maturity. Most good people I know, Christians included, don’t murder people because they’re worried about being punished by god. They don’t do it just because it’s wrong.

          • WMCB says:

            Well, most Christians in history neither taught nor believed that divine retribution was the primary reason. That came more with the Calvinists and Puritans. Theologically, the oldest churches taught that murder (and other sins) did damage to one’s own soul, took one further from God.

            The Orthodox church (technically the oldest) has a very different view of “hell” than baptists. It’s very ontological. One is engaged in “theosis”, or becoming more like God. Sin is not sin because it’s “dirty and bad”, but because it is, in a real sense, unmaking yourself. Moving toward non-being. The very early church fathers often read a lot like buddhism but with a very personal God. The metaphysics of it read very different from what you hear from your average megachurch today.

  12. mothy67 says:

    Red State is on Netflix. It is a film by Kevin Smith(Clerks) Think it is supposed to be modeled after the preacher who picketed military funerals because of the r something. I refuse to use his name. What a dumb ass the polluted preacher was a Democrat. Not a good movie but it is telling. Chubby one hit wonder Jersey boy being profoundly xenophobic.

  13. The Klown says:

    Because it’s Monday:

    • Somebody says:

      Honestly where do you find these awful pictures? Do you spend your evenings surfing the net for them? Don’t you worry about some of the sites you have to go to in order to find them? OMG that disgusting man-child yesterday and then this one today.

    • Somebody says:

      And another thing, if you’re going to post boner pictures could you please find some that are more substantial.

  14. The Klown says:
    • DandyTIger says:

      Lucy, you’ve got some ‘splaining to do.

      • mothy67 says:

        What do you think of chromebooks? I need to get a laptop and they are really cheap. I know they run Linux and come with google docs. Mostly for a kid for school. I can convert to word. Is it worth it or should more and get a windows or apple product. Iplayed with one and it seemed fine. 200 dollars. Seems to good to be true.

        • 1539days says:

          I’d go with a cheap-ish Windows laptop in the 11-14 inch range. Prices are at the floor because everyone is buying tablets. Chromebooks are useless if there isn’t internet and they don’t run regular (ie Windows) programs.

        • Somebody says:

          We’ve been running linux on all our computers for well over a decade. Linux is much more stable but it scares the hell out of a lot of people for some reason.

        • DandyTIger says:

          Don’t particularly like Chromebooks. I’d go for either a new 800-900 Macbook Air, or a used 500 Macbook Air. Microsoft and thus Windows is already dead, we’re just waiting for the grave marker to be carved.

          • DandyTIger says:

            Or, just get a 250 or above for more storage iPad if that can work. When you need a real keyboard, you can get a cheap bluetooth one, 20-50, if needed. Or super fancy one for 100.

          • votermom says:

            Dandy, I’ve been wondering about laptops for when the kid goes to college (not this fall but next fall).
            She wants to do engineering; most of the engineering depts say: get the most powerful laptop possible, with enough memory to run CAD programs (which makes sense). And then they add – if you buy a Mac, get lots of storage so you can install Windows over it (I guess in a separate partition).
            Although I prefer Mac (despite the $$$) I wonder if that would not make it clunky for an engineering student?

          • elliesmom says:

            Most engineering schools will offer you a good deal to buy the machine through them. The upside is you know it will meet all of the specifications needed for classes, will come setup to tie into the schools network, and they’ll have a Help Center for both hardware and software on campus. The downside is your computer looks like most everyone else’s and that makes it easy to steal. I’d check out the school’s offer before I bought anything else unless you need the computer sooner than that.

          • 1539days says:

            My experience is that Windows will be a zombie for a very long time. We’re supporting multiple customers hanging on to Windows XP installations and relying on the fact that XP embedded updates from Microsoft still work on XP OS.

            I’ve tried Linux before and have found it extremely lacking in both the GUI department as well as decent video editing software. Plus, Microsoft tech support has never told me to recompile the kernel as a solution.

            Apple and Linux products are “better” in any number of ways. Neither is highly prised at the low end of the cost spectrum.

          • votermom says:

            EM, that’s what I was thinking too – wait until she actually enrolls and go from there. The school she finally picks might have a specific laptop spec requirement. Plus I guess the later we buy, the longer until it becomes completely obsolete, and she’s going to need it for a minimum 4 years.

        • elliesmom says:

          I just bought an 11.5″ Asus notebook that’s working out really well. It was $300. I like Macs, but the equivalent machine was $800. I also have an iPad, but it doesn’t completely fulfill the same needs. Just make sure if you get something that’s running Windows 8 it has a touchscreen because it will be worthless without one.

  15. The Klown says:

    MSNBC hosts laugh at Obama’s excuse for not cancelling fundraisers:

  16. mothy67 says:

    This bullshit is out of hand. They lie and lie.
    Look at the date of this article

    Clueless putz even says he is modeling it after Rahm Emmanuel. Yeah because he has done a stellar job in Chicago. You have to read half the article before you find out what he wants to say and that is Pittsburgh is now a sanctuary city. May 29, 2014. Nothing shady going on.

  17. swanspirit says:

    Larry Correia weighs in on Warren’s “commandments ”

    Elizabeth Warren, best known for being a super white lady who pretended to be Indian to fulfill an EEOC requirement, is trying to establish herself as the “Youthful” alternative to Hillary Clinton for a presidential run. This is understandable since Clinton was born in ’47 and Warren was born in ’49, and that’s like seven Prog years.
    Anyways, Warren gave a speech and listed off the 11 Commandments of Progressivism.
    Since I despise Progressivism to the very core of my being, let’s take this opportunity to go through these commandments together. As we’ll see, most of them sound all nice and fluffy but are actually pure evil, sort of like pulling a bunny slipper over a jackboot. Each one of these is so ridiculous that responding to it would take a thesis, so I’ll just hit the broad philosophical points.

  18. threewickets says:

    Don’t forget the Global Gay Lobby…dun dun. 🙂

    For more than a year now, there has been ample talk around Rome about a powerful gay lobby at work inside the Vatican. When Pope Benedict XVI resigned in February 2013, rumors were rampant that the alleged gay lobby was part of the reason he left the papacy. Apparently the gay lobby was so powerful it was given ample ink in a still-secret red-covered dossier presented to Benedict as part of a Vatileaks internal investigation after his butler was convicted of stealing his private papers.

  19. DeniseVB says:

    Just wanted to reassure everybody that Obama can still do his job and eat all the cheeseburgers he wants while he’s doing it 😉 A snip from today’s WH press briefing…….via Keith

  20. The Klown says:

    Evangelical Atheism at UC Berzerkley:

    • WMCB says:

      That’s just a disturbed human being.

    • DeniseVB says:

      What’s the definition of “atheist” again ? I don’t recall “hate” being part of my decision to leave the Catholic Church in ’69. It was still the year of banning ALL birth control, so I left. Never turned me into a hater activist. I made a choice. Church of the Golden Rule Of My Personal Thing has worked great from me so far, even popping into St. Patrick’s for a mass. Taking communion too. Haven’t been struck by lightening yet 😀

      • WMCB says:

        Hateful people will always find a reason for whatever their belief system is to support their hate.

  21. 1539days says:

    One problem with Atheism is that by definition, an atheist is a person who is without theism. That being the case, I would assume the last thing they want to do is talk about religion all the time. There are some people who are downright evangelical about it and they are the ones who are on TV all the time. Penn Gillette is an unconventional kind of guy who has a unique set of values that are often contradictory in other people. Given enough time to talk about religion, he starts to get really strident and somewhat disparaging.

    There are more Atheists that don’t know they are. Someone agnostic is without knowledge and is therefore without a relationship with God. Now, you can still believe in the value of Christian (or other theology) and not be religious. Pascal’s Wager is all about the idea that religious tenets are a good life plan and insurance in case you’re wrong about the afterlife.

    • DandyTIger says:

      Joseph Campbell is a good example of an atheist who made the study of philosophy, myth, and religion his life’s work. A spiritual man in a way, but at the same time did not believe in the existence of a God or Gods.

      Like an atheist, an agnostic can of course be someone who has great knowledge of various religions, could have been brought up in one particular religion, but doesn’t have one now. Whereas an atheist might say the existence of especially a theistic God is a very silly idea, an agnostic might just say they have no way of knowing one way or the other, ever, and so are indifferent to the whole idea, but probably lean towards the whole idea being rather silly and childish.

      There are many flavors of atheists and agnostics. I’d guess that the vast majority just don’t give religion that much thought beyond when it’s the topic of conversation in the news or at some family gathering. Of course we’ve all seen the zealous types that are effectively evangelical in their pushing of their beliefs in no God or Gods. They are boring and tiresome in my opinion. Exactly in the same way as an evangelical religion person pushing their own beliefs in some God or Gods. I think to most people, religion or lack of one is personal as well as shared among others of the same belief structure.

      Separate from all that I think are the community and cultural morals shared that make up the foundational structure in some ways of the society. I think that foundation can be shared regardless of the particular religion or lack of religion of individuals.

      • DandyTIger says:

        BTW, a fun thing to do if any religious types selling their religion show up at your door is to tell them you worship Satan. The looks you get and the stunned silence are priceless.

        • The Klown says:

          I tell them I’m busy getting ready for a goat sacrifice in the backyard and invite them to join me, adding that it is clothing optional.

          So far no takers.

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