Irony Alert! Stupid American Voter Edition

An average Kossack.

So a few days ago this guy forced no less than the Washington Post to publish the first in a series of speeches by Jonathon Gruder, MIT economist and giddy architect of Obamacare, in which he called the American voters stupid and easily duped. And, sadly, he’s kind of right. Why is he kind of right?

Basically the American public was opposed to Obamacare at first, but since it’s passed, said public has not really wanted to repeal it, even though the aforementioned architect and numerous other “experts” have found major flaws (PDF) in the program, including multiple typos that have caused serious problems and may soon prove the unraveling of the law itself.

But the real irony of the law is this: In order to attempt to provide a way for the uninsured to access medical care that does not bankrupt them, the law forces many of those who are already insured  and use that insurance, into bankruptcy. Call it the race to the bottom, or just go read this poor woman’s story:

A project manager for a manufacturing company, she is one year removed from a cardiac arrest and the subsequent physical recovery is being dwarfed by a near-impossible fiscal recovery. She was sent last Sept. 9 to the emergency room at St. Mary’s Hospital, which was out of her insurance network, instead of to Meriter Hospital, three blocks away, which was covered by her insurance. It’s the difference between a $1,500 maximum out-of-pocket expense and the now-$50,000-plus she’s facing in bills.

“I was unconscious when I was taken to the hospital,” she said. “Unfortunately, I was taken to the wrong hospital for my insurance.

The project manager in question is a 30 year old from Madison, WI. She had insurance, but was deprived of choice in accessing health care due to being unconscious and basically at the mercy of of her Blue Cross Blue Shield plan. Now she’s facing so much debt over her unexpected health crisis that she can’t even get married as she’d like to.

This wasn’t really a problem before the ACA came along.  Oh, sure, there were HMOs and in-networks and such, but the difference in pay rate was usually 80% for out of network providers, sometimes after a deductible if the insured chose a high-deductible plan. HMOs these days are extremely pricey comparatively speaking. And they come with lopsided in-network / out-of-network pay schemes by design.

Insurers would much rather you purchase their newly minted “Consumer Driven Healthcare Plans,” (formerly called “high deductible plans”) where you pay for everything out of pocket yourself until you meet a deductible you won’t ever meet UNLESS you have have an unforeseen major health care crisis, or already have major health care issues.

This new system is what people mean when they say they can’t access some of the best hospitals in their area, or have to drive hundreds of miles in some rural areas. They haven’t chosen to pay their health insurance plan a bunch of money for doing basically nothing. They actually expect health insurance to work. The result? “Balanced-billing.”

A News 3 investigation revealed Rothbauer’s situation — what’s called “balance billing,” where patients receive the balance between the hospital charge and what insurance companies will cover — is not unique. While the local insurance companies that represent roughly 80 percent of those who have insurance in our area will offer out-of-network patients in-network rates during emergency room visits, there remains no guarantee they won’t face hefty bills on the back end depending on the treatment they receive.

This must be what Gruder meant when he said that “lack of transparency” was a “blessing.” Here’s how that worked out for Rothbauer:

Blue Cross Blue Shield, said it paid St. Mary’s 100 percent of its in-network rate or $156,000 to cover part of the original $254,000 bill that she incurred during 10 days in a medically-induced coma and another six days in the cardiac unit. St. Mary’s negotiated with Rothbauer to reduce the remainder of her $98,000 bill by 90 percent. This is separate from the bills she received from the doctors, the ambulance, the therapist and others.

Gaines said consumers have little chance to negotiate against the parties in the health care industry as they don’t have the necessary tools.

“I mean, I know this business. I’ve been doing this for a while, knocking on doors, trying to understand this data and I have no ability to do it. None,” Gaines said. “When they don’t even disclose the cost (of services), there’s the cost. There’s the price. There’s the charge. There’s the accepted payment. Lions, tigers and bears, oh my. How do you even know what’s what in this world?”

Bolding mine. Btw, [Meg] Gaines is a health insurance expert who has been doing this for over a decade.

Just in case you missed the irony the first time, here’s what this all boils down to:

The Affordable Care Act specifically addressed emergency room visits for out-of-network patients by requiring insurers to pay the greater amount between the in-network rate and what Medicare would cover. However, balance billing is expressly permitted and Gaines said its results, like what’s happened to Rothbauer, are far too common.

But you know, finding this on the Wreck List at DK and stumbling across a bonus post at Hullabaloo while researching may have been the greatest ironies of all. It’s almost like they can’t read. Stupid American voters, indeed.

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About Woke Lola

Bitch, please.
This entry was posted in Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, Zombies. Bookmark the permalink.

119 Responses to Irony Alert! Stupid American Voter Edition

  1. Dicked around for an hour trying to find a suitable image for this. So many to choose from! Debated posting this for the morning, but the last thread was so full, and tomorrow will bring 12 more pressing news releases from the outrage machines. Consider this an overnight open thread.

    At any rate, you can likely sleep in now, klown. If the kitties let you, that is.

  2. votermom says:

    Great post, Lola!

  3. votermom says:

  4. votermom says:

    Lolololol APEC humiliations galore

  5. Kathy says:

    Gruder just wants everybody to know how smart he is so bad that he can’t shut his mouth….typical. Just telling my husband that the reason people can’t stand the dems is because they are so condescending and pompous.

    • I think he’s been caught articulating the way people think at these ivory tower institutions, especially in the soft(er) disciplines. I’ve long said they think differently and that’s why it’s a serious problem to let too many of them into positions of power and influence. I’ll vote for the guy or gal from a state school or a third tier school over a person with a Harvard/MIT /Princeton/ Stanford /Yale degree any time.

      PS: Walker didn’t even finish at Marquette.

  6. SHV says:

    ” And they come with lopsided in-network / out-of-network pay schemes by design.”
    *****
    That because the law and subsequent 20,000 pages of “rules” were/are written by revolving door insurance/health “care” lobbyists. PPAHA provides essentially no catastrophic financial protection because “out of net work” isn’t included as part of max out of pocket. The very “tight” networks also make it very difficult to avoid Out of net work bills. If hospitalized in a “in network” hospital, the doctors and some hospital departments may or may not be in network.

    I got caught in that trap 7 years ago when my “high end” insurance paid $1.75 on a $50,000 hospital bill. One huge advantage of being covered by Medi-Care is that I can go essentially any hospital in the US and no balance billing.

  7. elliesmom says:

    I don’t think many of the typos were typos. Specifically the one that will bring the ACA back to the Supreme Court. I think the people who drafted the bill deliberately said only people getting their insurance through state exchanges could get subsidies to force states to set up their own exchanges. Gruber has confirmed that. What remains to be seen is if the Roberts court will “fix” the law or strike it down.

  8. Somebody says:

    What happened to this woman was a problem before the ACA. It may be exacerbated now, especially with the bankruptcy restrictions, but I assure you it was quite common before the ACA.

    I’ve mentioned before that when my daughter was diagnosed with cancer the pathologist was out of network. We were at an in network hospital, but pathology was excluded from the insurance contract……of course nobody told us that. It’s not like it would have mattered anyway because my daughter was inpatient, in critical condition at the ONLY pediatric hospital for 100’s of miles around and the only place with pediatric oncolgy. When you’re inpatient you don’t have a choice regarding pathology. She was finally discharged a couple of weeks later and we came home to find out we were $89,000 in debt due to pathology. She was diagnosed in September and by December we were over $150,000 in debt to pathology. That was on top of our deductible, co-pays and catastrophic. Most people assume once you meet your catastophic then everything is covered…..wrong. You still have co-pays and you still get gouged out of network if you have to use a provider that is OON. Also, there are still things they simply won’t cover that the doctors say are needed.

    We were very fortunate that my husband was able to change insurance during open season and we went into the new year with a different policy where pathology was covered. What was really maddening was seeing what the same pathologist accepted as payment in full in network. The first insurance company had actually paid him more than he accepted as payment in full from the second company that was in network. An example he charged a little over $16,000 for a BMA, 1st insurance company paid him at first $1,200 then came back and paid him more for a total of $3,800 which was their in network allotment. When we switched to the second company he had a contract with he accepted $2,400 as payment in full. Yet when he was out of network he billed us for the difference between his bill of $16,000+ and the $3,800 the insurance company paid him. My daughter had LOTS of BMA’s. She also had to have a LOT of spinal taps and the balance billing eventually all added up to more than $150,000.

    We tried to negotiate a settlement but the pathologist refused, so we made payments for years. Looking back we should have just filed bankruptcy, but I understand you can’t do that now with the ACA. BTW after a little more than 5 years the pathologist finally wrote off the remaining balance. Don’t shed any tears for him, he got WAY more than he should have IMO. We were paying him a little over $500 a month, plus the money he’d already gotten from the insurance company, which btw if you do the math was a little over 150% of what he accepted as payment in full from company number two……so he made out just fine. I certainly don’t think he owed his services for free or anything, but I think what he did to our family was wrong and doctors shouldn’t be allowed to gouge people that way. 75% of my area has BCBS and in fact we had BCBS before we switched, funny he didn’t have a contract with the company that insures 75% of the people in this area. There were lots of other BCBS families with cancer kids that had similar 6 figure bills. Some families had there entire bill waived, others were told they could settle for amounts ranging $1,500 to $30,000. There were two other families like us where pathology wouldn’t accept a dime less than the full amount for settlement.

    There needs to be some kind of consumer protection. Price gouging is illegal in many circumstances but it’s perfectly acceptable in the medical arena. Anybody can end up in this situation, even if you go to an in network hospital as we did. Some hospitals exclude radiology, some pathology, and who knows what else. You may escape if you don’t have too serious of an issue, but you may not. I think it should be illegal for a doctor or hospital to charge more than twice the medicare reimbursement rate or something to that effect, but I’m not in charge of the world.

    • elliesmom says:

      We were really fortunate when my son went through cancer treatment. We had Harvard Pilgrim Healthcare. The biggest out of pocket fees we had were for parking the car at the hospital, and that was subsidized, too. The CEO of Harvard Pilgrim is the new governor of Massachusetts. I’m looking forward to seeing what he does.

      • Somebody says:

        Seriously parking? You were indeed very fortunate. Thank goodness our parking was free, because we really couldn’t afford it. It was bad enough to be dealing with a kid with cancer, but then add the stress of being so far in debt to it…….argh!

        I’m over it all now, I don’t mean to sound bitter, I am extremely grateful to the medical staff. I’m so very thankful my daughter won her battle, we knew far too many kids that lost theirs. I know those parents would give their last dime to have their child back and I would have given my last dime if that’s what it took to save my daughter.

        • leslie says:

          Somebody, you don’t sound bitter at all. You sound grateful and truthful. I’m so glad that your daughter won that battle and is still with you.
          {{{hugs}}}

        • elliesmom says:

          We were so fortunate, and we knew it everyday in every way. Not every family had the kind of insurance we had, nor did they have the good outcome you and I had both had. What all of the families at Dana Farber/Boston Children’s did have, though, was the support of the Jimmy Fund. The charity provides large scale help to people with great need of help, and friendly touches that ease the stress for everyone. While we lived close enough to commute to Boston, the Ronald McDonald House was a godsend to the families who needed a place to stay. Boston isn’t an inexpensive city to live in while your child is hospitalized.

      • leslie says:

        I cannot imagine what it is like when your child has an illness that is so frightening as cancer is. Yes, you were fortunate to have good insurance. I’m simply taking deep breaths right now as I think about your situation – and Somebody’s as well.
        Bless you and your family.

        • elliesmom says:

          Laughter truly is the best medicine, and we did a lot of laughing. Lots of good friends helped with keeping life as normal as possible. My son is a rock. He never doubted he’d make it through, and he wouldn’t tolerate doubt from anyone else.

          • Somebody says:

            Laughter is truly the best medicine and we also did a lot of laughing. In fact my daughter really got into Brian Regan and she actually used a lot of his routine on the medical staff. “Everything on my inside wants to be on the outside”. She also did the whole rating her pain thing twice, as well as other parts from his various acts. At the end of her treatment we gave her doctors and several nurses Brian Regan’s DVD “I Walked on the Moon” which includes the ER, and doctor visits……so they could finally be in on the jokes.

            I posted a thank you on his website for helping to make her treatment a little easier through his comedy. To my surprise his manager called me almost immediately and made arrangements for us to go backstage when he came to town a few months later. He was super nice and he just died laughing hearing about her using his schtick on her doctors. His favorite was what she did during her post treatment testing for cognitive issues. She was shown the solar system and asked to identifiy the various planets, without missing a beat she exclaimed “The big yellow one is the sun”, that’s from his first album. She also called the shrink a funsucker and he thought that was hilarious.

            We learned to laugh about the medical bills too. In fact I took delight in messing with bill collectors, especially if they asked me to spell my street or city name……you know A as in apple, but it was never apple, LMAO! Numbers were fun 5 as in 5,365,422, etc.

        • Jadzia says:

          Hugs to both of you. I can’t imagine.

    • I agree that it’s a problem, and my point here is that it’s more of a problem now WITH ACA. That’s because of fundamental changes to the design of the system caused by a bill written by health insurance companies, and sold to sheep by a pack of wolves.

      I’m sorry that happened to your family and your daughter. That’s really weird that the pathologist was so uneven in his billing and in his approach to negotiating. How did he make these decisions, for goodness sake?

      • Somebody says:

        We all were shocked to find out the vast differences in settlement amounts too. In the end we figured the good doctor or someone on his staff did a little financial investigating, at the very least ran a credit check. What he expected did sort of line up with incomes.

    • votermom says:

      That is so scary. Hubby’s thyroid problems are back, and he might need surgery. If we get a bill surprise like that he’d probably get a heart attack.
      “Surgery was a success, but the patient died from billing shock.”

      • Somebody says:

        Since it won’t be an emergency you can check out the coverage. Ask specifically about pathology and radiology. Also, try to find out each doctor and find out if they are in network.

      • Ann says:

        I don’t know what your hubby has (nods, overactive, underactive, cancer), but see if RAD (radioactive iodine) is an option. It isn’t a wonderful solution, and it isn’t for all thyroid issues, but the cost is much lower than surgery IF it is an option.

        Good luck to him (and you)

        • Ann says:

          nodes … (not nods)

        • votermom says:

          Thanks Ann. He actually had radioactive iodine years ago, before my oldest was born. Now he has some kind of enlarged nodules. Trying to get an appointment with an endocrinologist is hard – most don’t have an opening until March next year.

    • SHV says:

      What a POS. 25-30 years ago it was possible to “discount” to insurance, therefore if there was no insurance, no charge. The Feds made that illegal and pts. had to be billed but no one forced me to try and collect.

    • abc says:

      The situation is much worse under Obamacare. Because of all of the requirements of the law, insurers kept premiums lower by narrowing the networks. At present, most of the exchange plans nationwide exclude cancer centers, many exclude Childrens hospitals altogether. Its sickening.

      • leslie says:

        This will provide the elites and 1%ers with whatever care they require, while the rest of us will either die from our illnesses or go bankrupt — or both.

        • Lulu says:

          It is price rationing. Demand is cut through pricing. Like Gruber said in the “Cadillac Plan” video, price is manipulated through changing the tax and and compensation structure of employment to fool the Democratic voters. I’m waiting for the Gruber video to spell it out in the nastiest and cruelest way possible

          • Another irony here is that since wages haven’t kept apace, it translates into regular working folks actually taking a pay cut, further eroding any gains.

          • Lulu says:

            The elite want everyone to make a “mimimum” wage that they determine is appropriate with no bennies. Equality through servitude. They are essentially medieval. Billionaires are the nobles and academics are the clerics.

      • Somebody says:

        That is sickening.

  9. Constance says:

    The fact that Obama care passed does not reflect on the intelligence of The People as we didn’t vote on it. It reflects on the intelligence and honesty of the Democrat congressmen and women who shoved it through. The American voters have dumped 28 of the Democrat Senators who voted Obamacare in which all in all seems like a smart way to react.

    • Lulu says:

      If you believe in the genius of markets, as I do, it is obvious that the Democrats were playing with fire. By manipulating set markets (that needed tweeking and expanding to the uninsured) Democrats made themselves the destroyer and destabiliz-ers of markets. That always ends badly. The Ivy League Gruber-ites thought they could manipulate health markets (insurance and care) like it was the Chicago public housing racket. Gruber, bless his heart, has opened to public view the hubris and indecency of the scam.

      • leslie says:

        I am cynical about this. Gruber opened to the public a view that the public may never see or hear – depending on the news and media the public views/hears. And the people who have benefitted from the ACA won’t care what Gruber said.

        • Lulu says:

          I question how many have benefited from the ACA. Some have gotten Medicaid but that is really shit insurance since few providers will take it. It does offer some drug coverage. The subsidized policies are catastrophic plans that the Dems said were not good enough when in the open market and had to be cancelled only to be replaced with Obamacare “approved” catastrophic plans with huge deductibles and co-pays at a high price to the taxpayer who is paying the subsidy. The mandated “coverage” of the highly praised preventive care still has the deductibles and co-pays especially if a full checkup is needed (ie blood work, bone scans, etc) so it is not worth much. I think a lot of the people who think they like Obamacare haven’t been to the doctor or hospital yet. And the mandated coverage is often stuff that a lot of people will never use. It can be summed up as charging more for less with a big cut for the middlemen either in private insurance or the government.

  10. DandyTIger says:

    The health care system was in a death spiral before Obamacare came along. It should have been allowed to collapse under its own weight, causing the demise of the health insurance industry. Instead the health insurance industry devised Obamacare not to fix anything, but to prolong their lives and squeeze more money out of americans before it all comes crashing down. It will still crash, but the crash will take longer and be much worse. And all the blame rests with the Democratic party.

    • leslie says:

      the largest and loudest lobby in Illinois is the insurance lobby. I assume it is the same or nearly the same throughout the country.

    • The Klown says:

      I might have been able to find it in myself to forgive the Democrats for all their sins if they had come up with some genuine reform of our health care system. All they did was take a bad situation and make it worse.

      They’re so stupid they are actually proud of what they did.

      • Lulu says:

        Dems and Ivy Leaguers have great difficulty with cause and effect. Some of them have no real experience with it because they are pampered idiots who have never failed, some are simply stupid, and some are mentally ill and deny reality when it is up in their face. Most of the problems and failures of Obamacare could have been game-planned out if they had bothered to do it which is a primary step in all public policy planning. They are too stupid and lazy to do that.

        • leslie says:

          Well, some of the mentally ill Dems are getting it. A client said that since she’d been voting D all her life and nothing had got better, she was switching her vote this year. Another said that she’d gone to hear Rauner speak and he sounded compassionate and smart. She qualified her statement saying, “I know it was campaign talk, but I believed him. I don’t think it’ll be so bad.” (BTW, they were both POC. and they were different colors from each other.)

          • Lulu says:

            Gruber has destroyed the “party of compassion” mask.

          • leslie says:

            I agree. BUT at least in this case, this was before Gruber’s comments became “public knowledge”. I also doubt either of these women – or their families will ever hear about him and his opinion of them – unless MSM runs with it.

  11. DandyTIger says:

    Just because. And of course clearly sexist and racist. Or something.

  12. 1539days says:

    I have no idea what shitty hospitals are in or out of network. For years, I bought the expensive out of network plan from BCBS at work.

    So this year, my employer informs us that they plan to phase out the two low-deductible plans into one alternate plan. The one they are pushing is a high-deductible plan with savings account they will put money into. From what I gather, the savings account is the way they can make it “affordable care” which is apparently 9.5% maximum of an employee’s income (if they are even covered). Hearing this, I think I’ll stick with the OON plan, since if you drop it you can’t get it back.

    • Yeah, these are the CDHPs I mentioned. It’s basically emergency insurance just in case, with an HSA. You pay for everything until you hit your deductible, usually $2500 per individual and $5-7000 for a family in Indiana (other states may vary), plus your maximum OOP (out of pocket), which is another several grand. As far as I can see, these plans are a boon for the insurance industry because they cost them roughly the same as HMOs and other plans, but they don’t actually have to process any paperwork other than an auto-generated EOB, which is a sheet of paper telling you you owe the whole bill. This kicks the pre-existing patient and the health crisis patient into a smaller group of claims that can be nitpicked more easily by a smaller workgroup

  13. HELENK3 says:

    http://weaselzippers.us/205237-hearings-floated-as-hill-republicans-seize-on-grubers-americans-are-stupid-comments/

    Republicans are floating the idea of hearings over obamacare due to open mouth, insert foot comments by gruber

  14. HELENK3 says:

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-johnson/2014/11/13/charles-pierce-gruber-not-wrong-about-stupid-voters-drooling-yahoos-re

    instead of singing I’m too sexy for my shirt, maybe the dems should start singing I’m too smart with my mouth

    • Lulu says:

      That is the tact that the Vile Progs have been taking. Gruber did a non-apology. He is sorry he got caught. Everyone is stupid but them. Especially their own voters. Only their own voters can be fooled and are too stupid to think for themselves. They see the world as geniuses (them) and farm animals to exploit. The ruse is over. But the joke is on them because they are the stupid ones.

  15. HELENK3 says:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/11/12/Four-Times-Obamacare-Lie

    4 times obamacare advocates admitted it will kill old people

  16. The Klown says:

    I COULD win the lottery, but it probably ain’t gonna happen.

    • Lulu says:

      Gruber-gate is picking up steam. Part of it is how annoying and squeaky he sounds. He is that asshole guy everyone hates. LOL.

  17. HELENK3 says:

    gruber’s new book

  18. HELENK3 says:

    If I remember it right, only democrats voted for obamacare, not one republican vote so who are the dumb ones

    • Lulu says:

      That is why this whole CYA of Gruber just speaking the truth in an in-artful way is so funny. The only people they fooled were Democratic voters. Everyone else knew it was lies, smoke and mirrors, and fraud. The conclusion is that Dem pols lie to their voters because they are so stupid.

  19. Falstaff says:

    OT but really amazing: The Rosetta mission that landed a probe on a comet. Absolutely fantastic!
    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30034060

    • DeniseVB says:

      Some little NBC news twinkie said this morning, WELL, it wasn’t a perfect landing…. derrrrrrrrrrrrr, it’s why I can’t watch them. As someone else said, it was like landing a speeding bullet on another speeding bullet. Amazing.

    • leslie says:

      Awesome! I was thinking about this yesterday and am in awe of this feat.

  20. Lulu says:

    Obama (brilliant constitutional legal scholar) followed by the exposure of Gruber (genius MIT economics professor and model maker) indicates the Dem Party killed itself with credentialism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credentialism

  21. DeniseVB says:

    Oh this is good. One of the points of light, MSNBC is like Jon Stewart without the humor, you should be getting your news info elsewhere 😀

    http://www.youngcons.com/6-signs-that-youre-a-liberal-who-is-out-of-touch-with-reality/

  22. HELENK3 says:

    http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-this-is-what-revolutions-are-made-of-im-not-kidding/

    he is right. the backtrack bunch should Thank God everyday that Americans are a peaceful law abiding people

  23. HELENK3 says:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/opinion/thomas-edsall-the-demise-of-the-white-democratic-voter.html?_r=1

    this is pretty interesting. the dems really do not see it for what it is. they yell racism rather than address the problem

  24. piper says:

    “The Chinese therefore know any deal with Obama is just for show, meaningless. But to make doubly sure, they arranged for the language in the agreement to say “intend” to reduce their emissions by such-and-such by 2020 — “intend,” the mother of all wiggle words. (I “intend” to win the Oscar in 2016, even though I have not written the script yet.) Actually, the Chinese, as usual, did a brilliant job of using Obama for their own propaganda, knowing full well that he was desperate to be back in the news for something positive, preferably as far from D.C. as possible.”
    http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2014/11/12/climate-change-in-the-land-of-gruberobama/?singlepage=true

  25. DeniseVB says:

    Yay, MSM is finally noticing Gruber, but spitting out WH talking points …. He misspoke. Or was wrong. Or something.

    http://freebeacon.com/politics/cbs-gruber-obamacare-comments-stirring-more-controversy-than-ever/

    I caught a part of Rush yesterday and he sounded like he was about to pop a neck vein over the msm ignoring this story. He did bring up how the media hammered Romney for weeks over his 47% comment in 2012…..taken out of context, of course. THIS, he said, IS SO MUCH WORSE.

  26. piper says:

    Wednesday Newsmax TV’s “The Steve Malzberg Show,” Dr. Ben Carson pointed out that things like the ObamaCare architect Jonathan Gruber calling American voters “stupid,” IRS computers going missing and the Benghazi cover-up to help President Barack Obama win reelection are allowed to happen because the American media “likes to distort things” and they also think the people are stupid and easily manipulated.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/11/12/Ben-Carson-Obama-Gets-Away-With-Scandals-Because-The-Media-Thinks-America-is-Stupid

  27. piper says:

    (((Sending hugs and blessings to Somebody and Elliesmom and their children)))

    • elliesmom says:

      Thank you, We’re all good here. Sixteen years past last chemo treatment and 5 marathons.

    • Somebody says:

      Thanks we’re all good too, Thanksgiving will be 6 years since her last chemo. No marathons in her future though, she suffered some long term bone damage, but she’s alive, well and as feisty as ever!

  28. votermom says:

    Klown, have you heard of this guy? Sounds like there may be hope for California yet…
    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/392526/unlikeliest-winner-andrew-johnson

  29. piper says:

    Now that I’ve done my share of damages I’m off to knitting.

    A thread that I want someone to write about is these words (meanings / usages) – Democrat and Democratic

    • DeniseVB says:

      I remember while on kos and du, they HATED being called the Democrat Party, there was always a pile on if someone (especially a noob) used that. To this day I usually just say Dems or Dem Party. I never get whacked for it 😀

  30. votermom says:

    For elliesmom 🙂

  31. HELENK3 says:

    http://weaselzippers.us/205258-unbelievable-obama-advisor-believes-fake-fatwa-that-iran-is-against-nuclear-weapons/

    we do not need outside enemies, we have this thinking in the backtrack bunch.
    same guy who said Iran deal is another obamacare. Look how that turned out

  32. HELENK3 says:

    President Obama has reportedly privately conveyed ‘real heart-driven concern’ about the prospect of another round of violence in Ferguson, Mo., in the coming days – @politico
    Read more on politico.com

    gag me with a spoon.
    after holder and sharpton what did he expect?

  33. elliesmom says:

    Harry Reid is looking for a made-up job to give Lizzie Warren a job title. Kind of like what the University of Chicago did for Michelle. What shouldn’t surprise me, but it still does, is how many progs refer to Lizzie as being a “young, fresh face” for the Democrats. I’ve seen her in person, and she doesn’t look nearly as young as she does in her photos. Photogenic or photoshopped? The progs think she’s as much as 20 years younger than Hillary. There’s not quite two years between them. Of course, when Obama is president, two years can seem like a lifetime.

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