Identity Politics = Tribal Warfare


Chris Cilizza, via Lulu:

America’s new cycle of partisan hatred

After a political rally this week in which Democrats criticized the Obama administration for siding with Republicans on trade, I had a talk about the future of the party with Rep. Alan Grayson, a Florida Democrat who is one of the most ferocious partisans in the House.

It does no good, he told me, for Democrats to “pretend to be Republican” or to “run corporate campaigns and try to pretend that they’re going to govern from the middle.” His rationale: There is no middle.


It has long been agreed that race is the deepest divide in American society. But that is no longer true, say Shanto Iyengar and Sean Westwood, the academics who led the study. Using a variety of social science methods (for example, having study participants review résumés of people that make both their race and party affiliation clear), they document that “the level of partisan animus in the American public exceeds racial hostility.”

Americans now discriminate more on the basis of party than on race, gender or any of the other divides we typically think of — and that discrimination extends beyond politics into personal relationships and non-political behaviors. Americans increasingly live in neighborhoods with like-minded partisans, marry fellow partisans and disapprove of their children marrying mates from the other party, and they are more likely to choose partners based on partisanship than physical or personality attributes.

“Unlike race, gender and other social divides where group-related attitudes and behaviors are constrained by social norms, there are no corresponding pressures to temper disapproval of political opponents,” they conclude. “If anything, the rhetoric and actions of political leaders demonstrate that hostility directed at the opposition is acceptable, even appropriate. Partisans therefore feel free to express animus and engage in discriminatory behavior toward opposing partisans.”

Up to and through the early 1980s, the average American had a neutral view of opposing partisans. But since then, “partisans have come to dislike the opposition and like co-partisans dramatically more,” Westwood told me. Favorable feelings toward partisans on the other side have dropped by 10 percentage points — going from tepid on what social scientists call a “feeling thermometer” to being “clearly in the cold.”

This hyper-partisanship has occurred even though fewer people identify with the actual parties. The vast majority of self-described independents actually lean toward one party or the other, and they are often even more partisan in their views than those who identify themselves with a party.

Also of note is that the partisan polarization occurs even though Americans aren’t all that split on policies or ideology. Their partisanship is more tribal than anything — the result of an ill-informed electorate. “In order to have an understanding of the ideology of your party and the opposing party you have to have a lot of information,” and “that’s something that just doesn’t happen for the majority of the electorate,” said Westwood. “However, most people understand their side is good and the opposing side is bad, so it’s much easier for them to form these emotional opinions of political parties.”

This leads to a grim conclusion: The problem with politics isn’t Washington but the electorate. Members of Congress, most of whom come from safely gerrymandered districts, are behaving in a perfectly rational way when they avoid cooperation with the other party and instead try to build support within their own tribe.

Elected officials and professional partisans then reinforce the tribal tendency in the electorate with overheated rhetoric, perpetual campaigns, negative ads and increasingly partisan media outlets. “The individuals who hold more hostility are then given the green light to hold these more hostile positions,” Westwood explained.

It’s the damn electorate. What a bunch of riffraff. They never should have been allowed to vote. Democracy is just a fancy version of mob rule. We can’t blame our leaders or the media. They are just doing their jobs, inciting and agitating.


I imagine the courtiers of Louis XVI said similar things about the French mobs.

From “I Can tolerate Anything Except The Outgroup” by Scott Alexander:

The worst reaction I’ve ever gotten to a blog post was when I wrote about the death of Osama bin Laden. I’ve written all sorts of stuff about race and gender and politics and whatever, but that was the worst.

I didn’t come out and say I was happy he was dead. But some people interpreted it that way, and there followed a bunch of comments and emails and Facebook messages about how could I possibly be happy about the death of another human being, even if he was a bad person? Everyone, even Osama, is a human being, and we should never rejoice in the death of a fellow man. One commenter came out and said:

I’m surprised at your reaction. As far as people I casually stalk on the internet (ie, LJ and Facebook), you are the first out of the “intelligent, reasoned and thoughtful” group to be uncomplicatedly happy about this development and not to be, say, disgusted at the reactions of the other 90% or so.

This commenter was right. Of the “intelligent, reasoned, and thoughtful” people I knew, the overwhelming emotion was conspicuous disgust that other people could be happy about his death. I hastily backtracked and said I wasn’t happy per se, just surprised and relieved that all of this was finally behind us.

And I genuinely believed that day that I had found some unexpected good in people – that everyone I knew was so humane and compassionate that they were unable to rejoice even in the death of someone who hated them and everything they stood for.

Then a few years later, Margaret Thatcher died. And on my Facebook wall – made of these same “intelligent, reasoned, and thoughtful” people – the most common response was to quote some portion of the song “Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead”. Another popular response was to link the videos of British people spontaneously throwing parties in the street, with comments like “I wish I was there so I could join in”. From this exact same group of people, not a single expression of disgust or a “c’mon, guys, we’re all human beings here.”

I gently pointed this out at the time, and mostly got a bunch of “yeah, so what?”, combined with links to an article claiming that “the demand for respectful silence in the wake of a public figure’s death is not just misguided but dangerous”.

And that was when something clicked for me.

You can talk all you want about Islamophobia, but my friend’s “intelligent, reasoned, and thoughtful people” – her name for the Blue Tribe – can’t get together enough energy to really hate Osama, let alone Muslims in general. We understand that what he did was bad, but it didn’t anger us personally. When he died, we were able to very rationally apply our better nature and our Far Mode beliefs about how it’s never right to be happy about anyone else’s death.

On the other hand, that same group absolutely loathed Thatcher. Most of us (though not all) can agree, if the question is posed explicitly, that Osama was a worse person than Thatcher. But in terms of actual gut feeling? Osama provokes a snap judgment of “flawed human being”, Thatcher a snap judgment of “scum”.

I started this essay by pointing out that, despite what geographical and cultural distance would suggest, the Nazis’ outgroup was not the vastly different Japanese, but the almost-identical German Jews.

And my hypothesis, stated plainly, is that if you’re part of the Blue Tribe, then your outgroup isn’t al-Qaeda, or Muslims, or blacks, or gays, or transpeople, or Jews, or atheists – it’s the Red Tribe.

America used to be a unique place where the old tribal loyalties and enmities were forgotten and a new common identity was forged. It was called the “melting pot” and even though it wasn’t perfect it created an entirely new nation.

Then along came identity politics. Identity politics (aka “multiculturalism”) focuses on how we are different rather than alike. It divides us into groups and pits those groups against each other for the benefit of the people in charge.

There are places on this planet where people are carrying grudges for stuff that happened before Christopher Columbus was born. Do we really want America to become like that?

About Myiq2xu - BA, JD, FJB

I was born and raised in a different country - America. I don't know what this place is.
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97 Responses to Identity Politics = Tribal Warfare

  1. 49erDweet says:

    If your “side” can’t use reason or logic to support it’s premise, the only things left are prejudices and avarice.

    • leslie says:

      ^True story^

      • 49erDweet says:

        I was thinking about Condi Rice. She seems to have the intellectual skills to do any job in government. Without referring to gender or race. I have no idea if she was the first of either to be SoS, and don’t care. That she was good in her job was all that mattered. I thought I’m too naive.

        • Dora says:

          I was amazed when I found out that Condi speaks fluent Russian! That’s a tough language. She is a brilliant person PERIOD!

          • leslie says:

            I thought she studied Russian in College. And then practiced it! I studied Russian in college as well, but the most I can say with any accuracy these days is: nyet and da.

        • DeniseVB says:

          Didn’t Condi want to be NFL commissioner at one time ? I know she’s a member of the Augusta Golf Club (Masters) and quite a fan of that sport too.

          • Dora says:

            I was curious, so I looked her up. Condi studied Russian at Moscow State University in 1979. Wow! No wonder she excels in the language. And don’t forget that she is also a classical pianist. Smart and talented too.

  2. DandyTIger says:

    And identity politics always leads to cannibalism. As in, the word “vagina” is now a trigger word that hurts the feelings of trans people. As in lighter skinned people among people of color have privilege. The subdividing never ends because it really isn’t about forming a tribe and battling with “the other”, it’s about identity all the way down until there is only one. The hate feeds on itself because hate is all they have.

  3. lyn says:

    It’s OK to be a bigot as long as you hate the right things and people. The Vile Progs are best bigots of all time.

    • Lulu says:

      It used to be declasse to act like a crazed, ignorant boob but it became mainstream in the past number of years. Social norms discouraged acting like an enraged, feral, mental case even if you tended that way it was socialized out of you unless you were destined for prison. Being polite, thoughtful, taking turns, not insulting workers who are trying to process your towed car because you are too stupid to read signs in English and have no impulse control, stuff like that, was how society rubbed along. Now the anti-social personality types (Reid, Grayson, mass murders, ISIS. child molesters) get the attention and approval from the similarly afflicted. This behavior is approved, emulated, and defended by those who like it, who want to behave similarly, and as a means to avoid norms so they can let their freak fly. Just calling them assholes is not enough. They are narcissists, and to varying degrees anti-social. They are sick puppies. Civilization cannot exist much less progress with warped, cruel, freaks running things. I think it is becoming obvious to more and more people.

    • swanspirit says:

      And completely obtuse about it . Completely.

  4. DandyTIger says:

    Maybe tribe forming, tribal warfare, and generational tribal grudges and hate are human. Maybe we’ve only made it around 400 years without too much of it because this is a new territory and a diverse mix of people, but eventually what we are as humans catches up. Maybe from this point it will only continue and only get worse. To war is human as they say. Maybe. I’d like to think not, but when I see the sheer hate and loathing from former friends, who I thought were reasonably intelligent, I just don’t know any more.

    • Lulu says:

      Tribal stuff developed as a means of self preservation or self defense in various circumstances. It was band together or get wiped out or enslaved or something heinous. If tribalism from out groups is coming back it is because they feel under threat and I think that threat is real. To whine about it after threatening people openly in every way possible is disingenuous. They conveniently don’t remember the shit they dished out and now they are failing don’t like the blow-back.

      • swanspirit says:

        Right. The original tribes required co-operation to survive .There was inter tribal communication and co-operation as well . They listened to each other and learned from one another as well. There was even respect during inter tribal war fare.
        So these Vile Progs are just pseudo tribes.

    • lildoggy4u says:

      Keywords: reasonably intelligent

  5. Dora says:

    I hate when politicians use this line. And so many of them do.

    Hillary Says! ‘We are all immigrants!’

    • DandyTIger says:

      I know. Yes we are, so. What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? And who’s talking about “immigrants” anyway? I don’t think anyone has an issue with legal immigrants these days. The legal immigration system has some bad issues from too much bureaucracy of course, and should be made better, but is that really a big issue?

      Now illegal immigration, there’s an issue that’s about the economy, support infrastructure, public education, downward pressure on wages, and of course national security. That’s an issue to talk about. The real question for that issue is, what’s wrong with a secure boarder? Why isn’t there one? Why does it not happen?

  6. DandyTIger says:

    Speaking of Condi Rice, during the Bush admin, as part of national security and as SoS, she was part of the failure to connect the dots of 911, and part of the coverup of no WMD in Iraq, and part of the general efforts in those wars. So people on the left scream war criminal and evil and all the rest. Now Hillary on the other hand, was part of very similar questionable policies and wars and coverups. The fiasco of the Arab spring, bringing down various stable governments in the ME to be replaced with radical islamic states, or to be in such turmoil to give way to ISIS or just as bad, Iran. Hillary was a main force behind the war in Libya. Negligence and then cover up in Benghazi, and numerous other lies, coverups, and perhaps war crimes. And though some Obots on the left don’t like her, it’s not because she did the same stuff that Condi did. So why do those people on the left really not like Condi then? Is her politics really that much different than Hillary’s? And where there are differences, is that why the hate? No, I say the people on the left that hate Condi, hate her because of her gender and race.

    • DandyTIger says:

      The worst crime you can commit in identity politics/tribal warfare is to be of one tribal identity but be a member of the other tribe.

    • lildoggy4u says:

      “Hillary was a main force behind the war in Libya. Negligence and then cover up in Benghazi”
      I really think the CIA was the main force behind all this.
      From wiki: The House is expected to support the 2010 Intelligence Authorization Bill including a provision that would require the President to inform more than 40 members of Congress about covert operations. The Obama administration threatened to veto the final version of a bill that included such a provision

      • DandyTIger says:

        It was pretty common knowledge at the time that Obama was against the Libyan war and Hillary and Susan Rice were for it, and really pushed Obama into it.

  7. 49erDweet says:

    OT. Sorta. And yet IMO the biggest disconnect in our country isn’t race or politics, it’s education. The royal Ivies haven’t a clue what knowledge and skills are really needed next year by research and industry for them to thrive. In fact, our educational gurus behave as if THEY are the ones who decide those things, rather than the demands of the marketplace. Their agendas and egos are why we are so fractured and uncompetitive, I believe.

    • 49erDweet says:

      “Biggest” in terms of rapidly tearing asunder our national economy and body politic. Any fool knows there can’t be THAT many career slots available for social engineers.

    • Constance says:

      I agree our Ivy indoctrinated ruling elite are nothing but a bunch of elitist dilettantes.

  8. mothy67 says:

    Pre 2008 I was taught and believed I lived in the greatest country on earth still believe in our potential, but 2008 robbed me of a lot. My grandmother had a photo of JFK on her wall until she died. I knew nothing of Rosemary, hid away and lobotomized perhaps for being a sexually active young woman. Had to control the image. Even if true that she was difficult and highly sexual. To say okay cut out part of her brain and then hide her away. I was born after Kennedy but I grew up a myth. When Caroline was supposed to get hillary’s seat i was pissed. What had she ever done? I looked at the kennedy legacy anew. Gross. It was a loss for me to take a fresh look. I felt robbed and ashamed.
    obama was sold as a myth and done effectively through social media and print. He will be hailed as hero in history books by 2017 for what a campassioate leader he was by spending billions on illegal immigrants housing.
    Nothing drives me more insane than providing housing for illegals when we have homeless or struggling vets. Let oprah, gates, suckaburger donate 60% of assets to the cause.

  9. 1539days says:

    Polarization is more than one group hating the other. It’s about how a world view is so similar on each side because people with independent views are weeded out of either side. Presidents like Reagan and Clinton were able to draw coalitions of people with opposing views on some issues. GW Bush mostly won by getting political conservatives and Evangelicals together. Obama ran as a blank slate the first time and ran a highly targeted, money fueled campaign the second time.

    If you are on “the right” you are likely anti-taxes, pro-military, pro-life, suspicious of government and have an appreciation of Country music. If you aren’t in all of those groups, you will accidentally post something online that will give you negative feedback from the people who used to support you. On the left, it’s even worse. The list is longer and you can lose your job if you don’t conform. Hollywood is the perfect example.

    • Janet Erwin says:

      “The list is longer and you can lose your job if you don’t conform.”

      Examples, please? The only “Hollywood” Republican I can think of offhand is Tom Selleck, and last time I checked he was doing just peachy.

      I LOVE Blue Bloods, btw, just as I loved Quigley Down Under and just about everything else he’s done. I don’t give a fuck what his politics are–never have–and I was a registered Democrat from the time I was first eligible to vote (1964) until my late political party decided to take the presidential nomination away from Hillary Clinton–who’d won it by something like 100,000 votes IIRC– and award it to the Cipher from Chicago.

      Those of us who were alive and sentient in the 90s remember the Clinton Years with fondness. We also remember the anti-Dubya posters from 2000: “Vote Bush–because those 8 years of peace and prosperity were BORING!”

      *I don’t have a party now; in fact I will probably never vote again–except possibly in local elections–because I don’t see the point. The Moneybags truly have got the reins now and I’m too old to give a shit. Anyone who was naive–or dumb– enough to vote for the CfC deserves what they get.

      • Myiq2xu says:

        “The list is longer and you can lose your job if you don’t conform.” Examples, please?

        Brendan Eich.

        • Myiq2xu says:

          They went after Phil Robertson’s job they didn’t succeed. They went after Chik-fil-A too, and that’s a lot of jobs that would have been lost. They used mandatory campaign donation disclosures to go after supporters of Prop 8 in California.

      • 1539days says:

        The point isn’t that a Republican gets fired off a movie set. People just starting out, new actors, crew, writers, all get the look if they say something out of place, as if they just took a shit in the middle of the room. You’ll never hear of the people blacklisted. They learned from McCarthy’s mistakes.

  10. mothy67 says:

    So if hillary wins are the rules now next up is a gay president then a hispanic, then a LGBTLMNOQ then indian then a WHicka president then everything under the sun then an asian.

  11. DandyTIger says:

    Meanwhile feminist groups destroy urinals because they’re a symbol of oppression, or something:

    • 1539days says:

      Seriously. The polarization is so bad now that even insane shit isn’t criticized. If a conservative referred to those vandals as “dumb bitches” it would get a firestorm on social media. If a fellow member of the Democratic party tribe did the same thing, they would probably be murdered.

    • mothy67 says:

      Wonder if they are environment nazis as well if so hypocrisy is thy middle name because flushing a toilet takes a lot more water than a urinal.
      I got a letter one time from some group advising me that water was a limited rescorce and to not flush after peeing turn this that off. I do not understand water conservation dynamics but I do know . I pee i flush. I don’t want splash later. Does my first use flush deprive you in the drought regions of a gallon of water of people in California or Africa?
      I really resent whan I am guilted like that. I do not waste but does it make any sense to quantify the time spent in a shower in hotel in OH and base that cost on a shower in Cali?

      • DandyTIger says:

        If people cared about water conservation, then they would care about population control, and thus they would care about immigration and border control.

        • mothy67 says:

          In a sane world they would not have meetings with plastic water bottles on the table. Watch C-SPAN everyone has a water bottle.

          • leslie says:

            I carry a water bottle ‘most everywhere I go. It is recycled and I fill it with the water I filtered from my own tap. The only time I buy water is when I’m out and need water and there is none to be had except in bottled form. I feel no guilt or shame at all. (at least not about the water I drink.)

      • Janet Erwin says:

        Perhaps you might think of going by the advice contained in a verse I learned when I first moved from Los Angeles to New Mexico some 22 odd (very odd) years ago. NM–then as now–was in a drought:

        “If it’s yellow, let it mellow.
        If it’s brown, flush it down.”

        • Myiq2xu says:

          That originated in the 70’s when Jerry Brown was in his first term and we had a bad drought.

          Now he is in his third term and we have a bad drought.

          Maybe God is trying to tell us something.

    • elliesmom says:

      As I’ve said before, I was one of the first women at an all-male engineering school. I don’t think you could have found a more rabid group of young feminists if you searched high and low. The school renovated half a floor in a men’s dorm for us. They added a closet here and there and changed the gang shower into individual ones for us. But the urinals were left where they were. We planted flowers in them. The local city newspaper photographed them. We asked for more women’s bathrooms in the classroom buildings since several had none. But we never destroyed anything. The light-hearted, sense of humor about things got us a lot of attention and a lot of what we asked for.

    • Constance says:

      What the hell are they thinking? Men are usually happy if they hit anything while peeing they will just pee on the wall or floor more than usual if the urinals are gone.

  12. Falstaff says:

    The irony is strong in this Klown.

  13. lildoggy4u says:

    Your stories and links in the last thread about the white kids being left out of college trips really hit me hard. I thought we weren’t supposed to separate people – all people are alike and should be treated so. It seems we are being taught segregation again. I’m really over the special interests when everybody is supposed to be in this together. I live in a gay ghetto and I’m so tired on marriage being the hot topic. Yes, I’m glad to see it happening but there are many more important issues facing us. I’ve mentioned to people the throwing off of buildings of gays and most haven’t ever heard of that. They’re too busy wanting transgender and children of their own. I got a lot of shit for my Romney bumper sticker.
    I hate these social issues and I especially hate those gotcha questions about these topics slung at every politician campaigning today. Watch anyone of those videos asking people to sign a ridiculous petitions or the questions asked of clueless students or the man/woman on the street. They don’t even know how our gov’t works, who the Vice President is or any relevant topic. They are too busy checking facebook.

  14. swanspirit says:

    I kid you not, just now, on QVC , someone selling a polka dot skort, said of the length , ” I call it a knee grazer ”
    I didn’t think you could say that on TV these days. / snark

  15. foxyladi14 says:

    They are more interested in Kim’s Butt!!! 😡

  16. Myiq2xu says:

    Today was Spring Clean-up Day in Merced. If you are a city resident you can haul all your old trash, e-waste, tires, appliances, green waste, furniture, dead bodies and toxic waste down to a collection point and get rid of it for free! I had two truck loads this year.

    Now it’s time for a beer run.

    • Myiq2xu says:

      Poor planning on my part – the collection point is across the street from the liquor store but I didn’t bring any cash.

  17. elliesmom says:

    The essay starts out trying to establish there is no middle, and to some degree, I agree. I always say I’m a person who lives in the middle politically, but it’s only because my positions on the various issues average out. Taken singly, I am always to the right or left, but just not consistently one or the other. I’m to the right on abortion and to the left on the death penalty. (Which I happen to think is remarkably consistent ideologically. :-)) Before the dawning of the Age of Obama, although I didn’t formally associate myself with the Democratic Party, I certainly voted for them more often. Since then, though, I’ve chosen to more closely identify with the party that accepts me for the issues I agree with them on and doesn’t vilify me when I don’t. No Republican has ever been nasty to me in person or online because I oppose the death penalty. They also seem to be OK that I support gay marriage but also support the right of people not to participate. The Left requires absolute fealty from me on every issue or else I’m a Rethuglican. Guess what? They turned me into one.

    • Underwhelmed says:

      Well said. You’ve encapsulated the situation perfectly. The fight is exhausting, but we have to push back against the fascism of the left. Or why did we bother with WWII?

  18. mothy67 says:

    I got arrested a few nights on drunkin charge. It was 3 45 am god only knows how much I drank but I am in my later forties and accept for one time in New Orleans I can never remember getting that drunk. I refused a ride from people wasted who said they could give me a lift. I Said no thanks I’ll walk. I was making no noise but my gait was at best steady. My community has one main street with the downhills comprising the neighborhood. I was wasted. Got pulled over walking. I riddled off my address and by that point I was 500 ft away from home. Cops were very nice except for the cuff thing. Took me home. I got a 312 dollar bill summary something bill by whatever the postal service calls those things you have to sign for(registered mail). It took me the highest powered reading glasses to read the ticket it or whatever it is called.
    I can admit guilty or nonguilty and sign.
    Fine was 150 hey I was drunk walking through a residential neighborhood. I was guilty. Close to 2 hours after last call. Cops in my opinion had every reason to find me suspect. I was guilty guilty guilty. I actually appreciatte my cops being that attentive.
    I was a little off put that evening in the bar by a guy that called me a fag. He tried to stir me up but I ignored. He looked the idiot because I was not even speaking to him.
    I was well beyond any limit but I had set off no alarms. I get fined so He can say this used to be a decent bar now we have to let all the fags in. I was just passing by to say hey. Then I am walking home and get arrested. I was guilty but the police just did their job.
    I think the 180 above is puniti

    • elliesmom says:

      A little motherly advice from someone who cares – if you think you might have a custody battle in your future, a night on the town like this isn’t a great idea. ❤

      • mothy67 says:

        Thanks but custody battle is with my parents. Not me. I have another apartment that I would say I live and do. She’ll be 9 soon. He is so awful. Part of the culture that thinks I had a baby i am owed something. No dude you owe her. He cannot rent an apartment unless it is section 8. His last girlfriend wrote a letter to the judge about abuse,. This little girl was thrown away. Well i just say no to her ending up not given a chance ever in life. Should he one day win. I would think about stopping what I pay for. Not abandoment but won’t be held hostage. Any judge that hears him says can you support her. He is so dumb. He has not given her a gift on her birthday ever. Next week, tomoorrow but tomorrow never comes only more todays. I am almost thirty but I made up my own business and I will be rich
        I blame subsidezed rent on a whole lot of it. Have a baby get an apartment. You can never win unless you combat freee.

      • mothy67 says:

        I am an idiot my point was meant to highlight how a dumb ticket can turn into a nightmare. You jump a stile, read the new york times, pee in an alley, petty crimes Dumb shit kids do. Give them a ticket if they have verifibe ID it is 50 but blusio may have changed it to commit a crime ride free if they do not have id tombs.
        I would never wanted Guilliani as President. Liked him as my mayor in those days that followed. I think he is a real leader.

  19. HELENK3 says:

    Is this what it has come to in this country?

  20. lyn says:


  21. mothy67 says:

    As you grow on this thread I would love to see an ask a question feature.
    Why was Arnar set off limits. In the time since it was a no go zone trillions have been sent to emirites. When we become an indentured servent nation who will scream save the whales?

  22. mothy67 says:

    I would also love to hear of one story where the actual Catholic Church denied anything to anyone

    My bad Elton John now decides who gets cannonized. Any gay Catholic should be appalled.

    • HELENK3 says:

      when my mother was dying, the priest refused the last rites because she was divorced and remarried. that was in the early 1950s

      • leslie says:

        Another good example. The CC refused to marry my mother and my father unless/until he agreed in writing that any/all children would be raised as Catholic.

        • mothy67 says:

          My point was not clear. I should have written when has it denied healthcare, food, housing based on gender preferences. I can’t walk in to Chik a filet and ask for a Big Mac.
          Agree rules on divorce are outdated.

  23. Dora says:

    I’ll drink to that! 🙂

    Middle age now lasts until 74 as baby boomers refuse to grow old

    Old age does not begin until 74, researchers suggest in a new report which looks at the real impact of an ageing population

  24. Lulu says:

    “Not having children isn’t selfish. Not having children is a perfectly rational and reasonable response given that humans are essentially parasites on the face of a perfectly lovely and well-balanced planet, ploughing through its natural resources, eradicating its endangered species, and ruining its most wonderful landscapes. This might sound misanthropic, and it is, but it is also true.”
    This crap is now mainstream. Justification for personal choices now means to demean everyone else who sees and experiences the world differently. What bigots and misanthropes.

    • DeniseVB says:

      Reminded me of the Dear Abby question she posed to her readers years ago “If you had a do over, would you have kids?” The overwhelming majority said NO ! It was a huge controversy at the time, being all judgey about those evil parents who didn’t want their kids. It was kind of silly but I understood it was a silly question. We all hated our swinging single, childfree peers and we mommies doing the grunt work at home with the little snots, wanted to be them …. for about 5 minutes 🙂

      • elliesmom says:

        My DIL absolutely refuses to even entertain the idea of having a child. If you ask her why, she’ll tell you she’s a selfish only child who has never had to share anything in her life, and she doesn’t intend to start now. She says it like she’s parroting something that has been written about women who don’t want kids, but she is absolutely serious. Which is why she probably shouldn’t be anyone’s mother. 🙂

        • Lulu says:

          If she is being honest that is fine. Some people don’t like children. Or can’t share. They shouldn’t have them. But this garbage about ruining a well balanced planet or children only facing bad stuff is shit. If things are that bad why don’t THEY off themselves now? Then there would be “resources” for the rest of the planet to heal itself if that is how they believe. But it is a lie. I looked at the author’s twitter of this malarkey and she is all about having a good time herself or tooting her own horn but trying to shame people who DO have children are using up HER resources and taking all the concert tickets. If she doesn’t have everything she wants it is “too many people’s fault”. I have a cousin who doesn’t like children. Her husband told me it is because she can’t stand not being the center of attention. And guess what. My kids grew up and they are still the center of attention. Not her. Because she is a miserable, whining, carping, misanthrope who can’t bother to be interesting, positive, or do anything but kvetch. About “other people”.

    • 1539days says:

      Pat Buchanan wrote a book over a decade ago called “The Death of the West.” It described the plummeting population rates in first and second world nations relative to the rest of the world. The population is leveling off globally, but pockets have extreme differences. At the time he wrote it, The US was at 2.1 children per couple, which was just at equilibrium. Japan is like 1.3. Europe is below 2. China enforces it at 1.

      Now, look at the Muslim world. Plural marriages and multiple children are encouraged. Having kids is both a biological and social imperative. At one time, your kids were your support system in your old age. Now we have a social safety net, and to a lesser extent, retirement planning to take their place. In the West, the state is more important than children. I suspect by the time a new generation is considered valuable again, we will be like Europe, where immigration is breaking the countries there apart.

      • Lulu says:

        That is the fundamental idiocy of the left. The next generation pays for the social safety net for the older one. They don’t know this and are too stupid to comprehend it. It is financed like a really big family. The workers also pay for the safety net for the non-workers ie children, unemployed, disabled. The non-workers are growing and the workers are shrinking. Importing non-working dependents is fiscal suicide. We are reaching a breaking point socially and fiscally.

  25. leslie says:

    Just heard Marco Rubio on FTN. He really has his own points ready. (I also agree with him about everything I’ve heard him say.) I hope it was the editing, but it sounded as though Bob Schieffer was cutting him off at every turn.
    And although I don’t support HRC for president any more, I hate listening to MSM refer to her in such smarmy and condescending ways. It makes me want to yell at the tv (again).

  26. foxyladi14 says:

    Happy Sunday every one. 😀

  27. mothy67 says:

    Slow to learn I am but it just dawned on me this current obsession with oppression. Black, hispanic, lgbt, cis, womens, and on and on is a result of the everyone gets a gold star school system. Can’t acknowedge Jane’s superior math skills because of feelings. Therefore when in life shortcomings have to be blamed on someone else.

  28. Dora says:

    Oh brother! I mean sister. 🙂

    Calling her ‘Hillary’ is now ‘sexist’

  29. mothy67 says:

    Anyone else have issues with Big Government and Twitchy? Tablet, desk top, laptop all freeze. Kindle is android others are windows and mac. Do they just have too many ads.

  30. swanspirit says:

    by JEN KUZNICKI on JULY 16, 2012 · 0 COMMENTS
    My fellow Americans,
    Eat your peas, you aren’t that smart, everybody works hard, you aren’t special, you can’t keep your thermostat at a comfortable temperature because you don’t deserve it, stop whining, stop being lazy, we aren’t as good as we once were, China is better, you are just a cog in the murder machine, you aren’t selling hard and hustling, you’ve lost your ambition, your imagination and your willingness to build things, you’ve gotten soft, you can’t drill because you’ll ruin everything, you can’t drive whatever you want, let’s be real. Now I have to apologize for you to every country that will listen. Thanks for nothing.
    Barack Obama

  31. Myiq2xu says:

    New thread finally up.

Comments are closed.