Who Is The REAL Hillary?

old hillary001


His point is that Team Hillary is constructing a series of “seminal moments” in the Dramatic Character Arc of the Hero Hillary Clinton, and that they’re all fake. Not that she isn’t necessarily a hardcore class warrior– but that the anecdotes are contrived, scripted, and planted.

Not “leaked” — planted.

Okay, I can buy that.

But I have to challenge this idea that AllahPundit and other people on the right have, that Hillary Clinton isn’t a real class warrior, and isn’t a real lefty leftist.

I happen to believe she is. All during the Clinton years, it was much-whispered that Hillary was the real gung-ho leftist of the pair, and that she disdained her husband’s craven triangulation and alleged centrism.

That may or may not be true — but I don’t like this idea aborning on the right that Hillary is a Closet Moderate. I don’t believe she is — I believe she’s as leftwing as Obama, and probably moreso, actually, on a practical operating level, as she’ll have to take the country further in the socialist direction than he did, in order to keep leftist support.

Even if she didn’t start out as more of a leftist than our current Leftist Resident of the United States — the logic of leftism (more to the left, ever more to the left) dictates that she be such.

AllahPundit himself usefully notes the hair-raisingly casual leftist samzidats Hillary has vomited out over the years.

I think it was useful to portray Hilary as a moderate or even a right-winger when we, as a group, were collectively making fun of the left for not getting behind a real leftwing crusader like Elizabeth Warren. It’s fun to shoot them full up of the idea that Hillary Clinton is virtually George W. Bush 2.0.

But it’s now clear that no one of any stature of the left will be challenging Hillary.

And it would be pretty disastrous for the GOP to have this meme out there, believed even by ourselves, that Hillary’s greatest drawback is her calculated centrism.

She’s not a centrist– she’s an angry leftwinger. That she loves money more than God or family should not be taken as some disproof of her leftism; communist party insiders have always lived like kings.

On behalf of The People, you understand.

Hillary’s “seminal moments” are, as Levy says, almost surely all contrived. But let’s not disbelieve that she is what she represents herself as — a committed, true-believing, wealth-redistributing leftist.

Discuss: Is the real Hillary a centrist or a LWNJ? Somewhere in between?

Most of us here used to be Hillary supporters, some still are, and all of us have been watching her for over 20 years. Ace was never a fan of Bill or Hillary, but is his assessment correct?

I always thought she was a moderate, but Republicans have been calling her a commie/pinko/flaming liberal since Bill first ran back in 1992. The knock on her from the Left has always been that she was too moderate, or even a closeted conservative.

What do you think?

(I have to take Tiggy to the vet cuz there is something wrong with his eye.)

About Myiq2xu - BA, JD, FJB

I was born and raised in a different country - America. I don't know what this place is.
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138 Responses to Who Is The REAL Hillary?

  1. Myiq2xu says:

    Molly Ivins:

    Mah fellow progressives, now is the time for all good men and women to come to the aid of the party. I donโ€™t know about you, but I have had it with the D.C. Democrats, had it with the DLC Democrats, had it with every calculating, equivocating, triangulating, straddling, hair-splitting son of a bitch up there, and that includes Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    I will not be supporting Senator Clinton because: a) she has no clear stand on the war and b) Terri Schiavo and flag-burning are not issues where you reach out to the other side and try to split the difference. You want to talk about lowering abortion rates through cooperation on sex education and contraception, fine, but donโ€™t jack with stuff that is pure rightwing firewater.

    RIP Molly

  2. 49erDweet says:

    I’ve never admired/liked her much so will bow out of this discussion. But will lurk.

  3. lyn says:

    Good luck with Tiggy. Hope his eye problem gets resolved.

  4. Lulu says:

    I think she is a realist and moderate but dare not show her sanity in the current incarnation of the Dem Party. But she screwed up royally throwing in with Bronco instead of staying in the Senate and pushing back behind the scenes. So I hope she has a nice life after this imbroglio of a campaign.

  5. DeniseVB says:

    I did enjoy her book Living History and all the interesting back stories before Bill appeared on the scene in ’92. Even the Bushes found him likable (per GWB’s book on dad, 41). She was my second choice after Edwards in ’08. I wasn’t a balls to the wall supporter like I was with JRE, but she was damn better than Obama (and I love that after 6 years, I’m still right). The Dems dumped me first, true story, no big whoop, JRE broke my heart first, so the hell with all of them. Sarah was the only highlight of ’08 and more qualified than all of them. It’s just too bad the media didn’t vet Obama, those that did were called racist. Ugh.

    I’m just hoping the electorate (at least the 5-6% that will decide the election) are tired of political experiments and historic firsts. While Hillary served well as a Governor and President’s spouse, that no way qualifies her for the Presidency any more than I’m qualified to be a USMC battalion commander….because I was married to one. Pillow talk and actual decision making with lives on the line are not the same.

    I would love to hear from our Hillary supporters here. As Sarah once said, you don’t need to be President to make a difference in the world, but if it’s Hillary on top of the Dem ticket, I’d sure like to see Sarah on top of the GOP’s. #War ๐Ÿ˜€

  6. Dora says:

    โ€˜QUID PRO DOUGH: Bill Cashed In When Hill was in Oโ€™s Cabinetโ€™ New York Post Cover For Tuesday, April 21, 2015


  7. angienc says:

    What is Hillary? A sell out.

  8. votermom says:

    That pic of Hillary in Klown’s post – she’s starting to look like Pelosi.

  9. DandyTIger says:

    Hillary is a politician. So you mostly get sleaze and lies. But then so are the rest of them. I’ve always thought she was to the left of Bill, and that Bill was pretty moderate. But I never thought she was that far to the left. But again, she’s a politician, so we probably don’t really know. In the end, they all bow to the oligarchy. So one issue to think about is, given a crisis, a need for world leadership, a continuing of ISIS and a nuclear Iran, who would be better? Another issue is a continuing sluggish economy and crushing debt and who would be better suited to make progress, and who has better ideas? On top of all that, there’s this natural desire to put a check on political parties by having them rotate in and out of power. If a number of politicians and parties are OK on the main issues, the latter may be the deciding factor.

    • Myiq2xu says:

      Hillary is a politician.

      Unfortunately that is pretty much a job requirement. I would not vote for someone with no political experience. And you won’t find a major candidate in either party that isn’t at least a charter member of the TPTB club.

      If a non-politician/outsider type ever got into the Oval Orifice the DC establishment of both parties would eat him/her alive.

  10. Myiq2xu says:

    Just because it wasn’t criminal that doesn’t make it right:

    • DeniseVB says:

      The donations to the Clinton Foundation probably weren’t illegal either. It’s going to be hard to prove pay for play, no wonder Blagho is going bonkers ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • Dora says:

      Oh the wording! ‘Huddles with senate democrats’ makes it sound like they are cooking up something dirty. ๐Ÿ™‚

  11. elliesmom says:

    When I was a little girl, there was a TV show on everyday called “Small Fry Club”. Everyday day the host would pour a glass of milk, play “Hail to the Chief”, and invite all of the little kids to drink a toast to President Eisenhower. The show was built around current events, travel, books, and civics lessons for little kids. I loved it. Somewhere in there I learned a woman had never been POTUS. It became important to me that I see it happen even if I had to do it myself. That’s how I looked at things when I was 4. When I was 13, my dad, the yellow dog Democrat, let me watch the Republican convention so I could see Margaret Chase Smith be nominated for POTUS. We were one step closer.

    I spent my crusadin’ days working for women’s rights always with my eyes on the prize of getting a woman behind that desk in the Oval Office. In 1988 our congressman, Marty Meehan, invited me to be part of an exploratory committee for a presidential run by Denver congresswoman, Pat Schroeder. I signed on full-time, but then she signed off. But I made a pledge at that time that if a woman came along from either party with a serious run for POTUS, I’d work for her even if I had to quit my job. I had already worked for Geraldine Ferraro when she was on the ticket as VP, but with moderated enthusiasm because it wasn’t the top slot.

    When Hillary Clinton decided to run in 2008, I was onboard from the start. I really didn’t know what her positions on the issues would be, but at that point, it didn’t matter to me. She just had to be a credible candidate and have the fire in her belly to take it all the way through. To campaign for Hillary I needed to know how she stood, but on most things I must confess she never really took a strong stand, and I when I didn’t know, I fudged it. I knew she supported abortion rights, but with the “safe, legal, and rare” caveat. I knew she supported universally available health care. But the rest of the issues were all tied very closely to what Bill had done in his administration. I’m not sure any of us knew what she agreed with him on and how she would be different. If someone confronted me about her, I would deflect by asking them what didn’t they like about the Clinton years? If I got “the blue dress”, I could say the dress wasn’t hers. I logged hundreds of hours of phone calls for her never knowing if she agreed with Bill on NAFTA or how she would have handled Glass-Steagall.

    I won’t support Hillary Clinton this time not because she’s changed her mind on any of the issues. Who knows if she has? She’ll be a LWNJ when she needs to be, and a moderate leftist when she needs to be that. I won’t support her because she doesn’t have the fire in her belly to do the job if she gets it. When it got tough on the campaign trail, she moved her tent to the enemy camp. When it got tough in her job as SoS, she didn’t answer the phone. Her corruption doesn’t bother me. I don’t think an honest person can get elected to the presidency today. I’m not sure he or she ever could. But she’s a quitter who hides under the covers. When that charge was leveled at Sarah Palin, I thought the hypocrisy was incredible.

    I’m still in search of a woman I can pour a glass of milk for, play “Hail to the Chief”, and drink a toast. She needs to a credible candidate with a fire in her belly to get and do the job. Hillary Clinton took the test and failed.

  12. Kathy says:

    For me, the problem is that I don’t know how she stands on issues…and we should all know by now. I know pols have to bs to please enough groups–but no strong stands ? Not good enough anymore.

  13. Myiq2xu says:


  14. HELENK3 says:


    this is the group that was stomping on the American flag when the cops arrested the female vet who tried to protect it

  15. DeniseVB says:

    Scott Walker and Megyn Kelly were very much on topic in this interview. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  16. simofish says:

    Got a call today from someone representing Nancy Pelosi and the DNC wanting money.

    I told the guy…. well in May of 2008 the RBC of the DNC took votes from Hillary Clinton and gave to Obama. She won the nomination thru delegates and thru the vote. Nancy can go to hell. The Democratic Party will never get a dime from me.

    He hung up. FUCKERS.

    I have always thought Hillary was middle of the road. Not sure how involved I will be (hold a sign? wear a shirt?) — I don’t want to help the democratic party at all, but I do think if she wins the nomination it is a win for “us” — I still don’t think the Party Leaders want her.

    • leslie says:

      Did he at least say “I’m sorry to hear that?”
      I think the Dems are going to hear a lot more of what you and I have said to them – a whole lot more.

      • simofish says:

        Nope he didn’t say sorry. I’ve already alerted my friends – we’re getting ready to give our “feedback” — back in ’08 we sent a lot of letters to the super delegates — I would be willing to send another round of letters telling them what “losers” they are and that “we told you so”

        Here’s a funny story —- We started a campaign “walk in my shoes” — we gathered hundreds of pairs of shoes and sent them to the DNC in Washington, DC. These were old smelly shoes ….. I can’t remember exactly what happened … but something was said about “walking in my shoes” …. anyway sometimes I think about that — the look on their faces when they opened box after box of shoes.

    • DandyTIger says:

      Fuck the DNC. They can eat my shorts. I’m independent and staying that way. I’m open to candidates from any party and will vote for the best or not vote as I see fit.

    • Myiq2xu says:

      She’s like King Joffrey – lots of people want her dead but nobody has the courage to try to kill her.

      • Until the Grandmother of High Garden took him out in the most publicly humiliating way. I don’t get see Grandmother on the horizon, unless it’s Hillary herself.

  17. 1539days says:

    I was never a big fan of Bill Clinton. My take was that he ran in 1992 when some of the heavy hitters didn’t want to jump in for fear they would lose to Bush. Clinton’s team invented the kind of rapid response that allowed them to pounce on a softening economy and put him to the right of the other Democrats running.

    As a president, Clinton chose to tread lightly, knowing that his legacy was at stake. Luckily, his attempt at health care reform was blamed mostly on Hillary Clinton. When Republicans took over, he knew how to use the art of negotiation. Hillary on the other hand, was quick to snap at people, like the “baking cookies” remark. Bill is generally liked by people, Obama will be quickly despised. However, he will be making big money out of office and he got a lot of progressive crap passed.

    I’m not sure where Hillary fits on the legacy vs. action scale. I suspect that she, like Obama, sees her status as “first woman president” will override any thing she does. While she has been criticized for being to the right on foreign policy, (and I believe she is because she has a brain in her head, unlike Obama) she appears to be right in line with Obama on progressive economics.

    • Myiq2xu says:

      Ross Perot had a big influence on that election.

      • DeniseVB says:

        Almost 20 million votes, Bill only won with 43% of the vote, Bush 38%, Perot 19%.

        • elliesmom says:

          Given the political leanings of all three men, it’s a no-brainer that Perot took most of his votes from Bush.

          • DeniseVB says:

            Like Nader robbed Gore in 2000. His piddly percentage of votes would have put Gore over in such a close election. But as Nader defended himself, it wasn’t his fault the other candidates couldn’t get a landslide margin.

            I had to peek back to 2k, eerily reminded me of ’08 and a predictor of ’16 ?


          • elliesmom says:

            This is why I never vote third party as a protest vote. When I step into the voting booth, the one thing I’m sure of is when the votes are counted, either the D or the R is going to win. Even if I dislike both choices, I always dislike one slightly less than the other. A protest vote that helps the one you like the least is silly in my mind, and you can’t always predict which way your vote will go. You can’t tell me the Nader voters preferred Bush to Gore.

          • foxyladi14 says:


  18. mothy67 says:

    Just watched Dinesh D’Souza’s. America: Imagine the Wold Without Her(2014)
    Seems his re-education camp didn’t change him. I enjoyed it. Streaming on Netflix and Amazon Prime.

  19. Myiq2xu says:

  20. I think she’s neither/nor; I think she’s an opportunist. She is what she needs to be o get what she wants, whether that’s the approval of the people she respects (Goldwater Girl; best in class in college), seeking the mate she wanted (let’s get real, she played the intellectual vixen to bag Bill), or the political entrance she wanted (the moderate of upstate NY), the indefatigable candidate of 2008, and now the gives-no-fucks honeybadger of the current campaign. I don’t think this trait gives her the leadership qualities she’d need to govern well, but it MAY allow her to win. I’m no longer the fan I once was. In fact, I have more doubts than I ever have about whether she’d be good for the country, but I’ll probably vote for her because there are no other promising candidates yet, and I still believe in vagina voting. Shatter the fucking ceiling, I say.

    • elliesmom says:

      I still believe in vagina voting, too, no matter what the political leanings of the candidate are, but I do have to believe the candidate, if elected, could do the job. I had no doubt Sarah Palin could handle the duties of the Vice President when I supported her. When I supported Hillary in 2008, I was confident she could handle being POTUS. The last eight years have changed my mind about that, and in good conscience I can’t vote for someone I believe isn’t up to doing the job just to break a ceiling. The one trait I think is non-negotiable for POTUS is the ability to be decisive when it’s needed. From her 3am campaign ads, I think Hillary would agree with that. It’s too bad she isn’t.

    • Jeffhas says:

      I certainly get your sentiments, and absolutely support your decision!

      Personally, Hillary would have to come forward and actually answer some questions – maybe a FOX news or other tough venue interview – instead of the constant avoiding, obfuscation, and complete PRETENDING, that she has answered or does not need to answer questions – it’s that whole “these are not the droids you’re looking for” cr*p that someone else brought up earlier… Like we don’t know you haven’t answered the questions when you sit there and tell us to our face you’ve answered ALL the questions.

      It’s off-putting, and makes me not trust her anymore, when I was more then trusting in 2008 (of course that stint backpedalling to be Obama’s SOS might also have something to do with my trust deficit too).

      I think she’s qualified to be President, I’m just not so sure she’s qualified to be a Good President anymore…. And I so want to vote for someone I think will actually be good – even if they don’t end up being good (or great), I really need to have the faith that they could, and I have lost faith in Hillary for now.

      • I get that, Jef. I don’t begrudge anyone who can’t vote for her, especially after all we’ve been through and all the shit she has done since. I wish there was someone I could get behind, but there’s not. While I respect Rand Paul’s rhetorical stance, I don’t trust him, and I suspect he’s the next MFer with daddy issues. That’s the last thing we need.

      • 49erDweet says:

        No offense, but relying on just one “tough” interview is wishful thinking. Hil could manipulate herself through a half dozen “tough” interviews before cracking her demeanor, IMO.

        • leslie says:

          This morning on Morning Joe, the conversation was about Hillary and her decision NOT to do interviews. the “panel” was discussing that these meet and greets and non-interviews were all decisions that would have “no long lasting negative effects” on her campaign and that as far as they were concerned, she was being safe by staying away from having to answer real questions.
          They are all such manipulative little mind fuckers.

  21. Dora says:

    If they keep making themselves look so absurd, no one will take them seriously about anything.

    You Wonโ€™t Believe Why Feminists Are Upset About Star Wars


    • DeniseVB says:

      The fems are probably just latching themselves to the pop culture wave. They could probably find something to be offended about in a Disney movie (oh wait…….). Leia and Padame were kickass female role models, judging by the released trailers looks like they double downed on kickass with their new female lead.

      Back in the 70’s girls wanted to be Leia, boys wanted to “do” her ๐Ÿ˜€

    • elliesmom says:

      When you get to a point in the “equality wars” where the things that upset you are the facial features of space aliens and the names used to describe cosmetics, or your main issue is someone won’t bake you a cake, the war is over. It’s time to enjoy the equality.

  22. Dora says:

    Clinton Foundation employee just got a life sentence. Will be a BIG problem for Hillary.


  23. DeniseVB says:

    Happy Earth Day ! Our President will be spending the day flying to Miami, motorcading to the Everglades, taking a tour and giving a speech. Save the Earth !

  24. HELENK3 says:


    I was lucky enough to go to school when discussion of different ideas was encouraged. This was in high school. I went to 4 different high schools and every one of them encouraged discussion. You had to have facts to back up your side of the discussion . this was in the 1950s. I had a history teacher tell us we will study communism because you can not fight what you do not know. We had another teacher say each of you will study a religion other than your own to teach tolerance.
    Too bad kids are not being taught like that today. History might not be repeating its self.

  25. DeniseVB says:

    Neblett !

  26. HELENK3 says:

    Happy Earth Day

  27. HELENK3 says:

    stolen from Marge

  28. HELENK3 says:

    another one stolen from Marge

  29. Lulu says:

    I have decided to tune out the early beauty pageant noise on who is running, what they said, etc in the media re 2016. I am having trouble giving two hoots. This includes Hill and Bill. It is rather pleasant and tolerable (and funny) in small non-traditional media bites. Like this site. Rather than watching television news and their crap I find something else to do. I think I’ll make a pie.

    • Lulu says:

      And I have gotten five or six fundraising calls from Dems in the past couple of days. I look at caller ID and laugh.

      • piper says:

        Since I’m cleaning the basement which has an old phone with no caller id on it, I usually answer all calls (waiting for million dollar prize phone call – snarc) , listen to opening spiel then tell them I’m an Indie who researches all candidate before voting, wish them a good day and hang up. For some reason, they don’t call back.

        • DeniseVB says:

          At least humans call you, all my pitches come from people who sound like Shelby Fluffy. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • leslie says:

            I remember Shelby Fluffy! I love Shelby Fluffy.
            And you’re right I have had recent Shelby Fluffy phone calls but they’re usually about “benefits for Seniors” . . .

  30. Dora says:

    Barack Hussein Obama will join Turkish president Recep Erdogan at the opening of a new $100 million Turkish mega-mosquetrosity in Maryland


  31. HELENK3 says:

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell introduces bill to reauthorize Patriot Act until 2020; law is set to expire June 1 – @nationaljournal
    Read more on nationaljournal.com

  32. HELENK3 says:


    I saw this last night. my first thought was, is there any one or anything that is bad for this country, that backtrack will not help?

  33. lyn says:

    Lil Bub punked FLOTUS via MOTUS:

  34. Dora says:

    These are incredible photos that put everything into perspective. If our planet disappeared, nobody would even notice.

    11 images that capture the incredible vastness of space

    • SHV says:

      And the “ordinary matter” that we can see in the estimated 200 billion galaxies in our universe, makes up only 4.9% of all matter in the universe.

      • DeniseVB says:

        Mind boggling when you think that our planet is barely a spec of dust on an atom and our existence on earth is not even a blink of an eye. Humans should really learn to get along better ๐Ÿ˜‰

  35. foxyladi14 says:

    Yes it is Helen. โค

  36. HELENK3 says:


    sounds like they are going to screw up the muppets

  37. Dora says:

    Hillary Clinton Loves Common Core โ€“ Doesnโ€™t Think Education Should Have Anything to do with Families


  38. driguana says:

    The REAL Hillary??? I don’t believe there is a real Hillary at this point. The current Hillary is like too many political plastic surgeries gone wrong to recognize a human underneath. I was never a fan of the Clintons going all the way back to Arkansas and nothing she could do or say at this point would make me feel any different. They are sleazy, greedy, self-centered people. Why do we keep voting for these kind of politicians? I know, I know…..’cause that’s all we get…no one else ever has a chance. Sad.

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