This is a safe place, not a “safe space”


Every once in a while I feel the need to remind people (including myself) of The Rules.

The Crawdad Hole was created to be a place where people can agreeably disagree. We don’t ban ideas, but we do expect people to behave like they would in real life.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts. Mocking and jeering of any and all politicians is not only permitted it is encouraged.

Personal attacks are not permitted. This is a rule I try to enforce lightly. If two people are mixing it up a little asnd it’s a pretty even fight I don’t want to squish their enthusiasm. Too much moderating takes the spice out of blogging.

On the other hand I don’t want to chase off any members of this community. Troll bashing is one thing, but I have not forgotten what happened in 2008. I still have PTSD from that experience.

I like to picture this place as a neighborhood bar kinda like Cheers “where everybody knows your name.” We’re all friends here. We all want the same general things (freedom, equality, prosperity, etc.) but we may disagree on which policies or candidates will best help us reach those goals.

We can argue over a few beers, then still part as friends. Some of us may spend more time on our bar stools than others. Some people are here all the time. Some of us drop by regularly. And more than a few of us just pop in once in a while.

Over the past few months Donald Trump has become the number one topic of discussion. Quite a few people are Trump supporters. But not everyone.

I won’t let this become a site for Trump worship but Trump supporters are welcome. So are the supporters of other candidates, including Hillary Clinton. I also won’t allow any of the toxic flame wars I have been seeing elsewhere.

But we are all grown ups here. This is a safe place, not a “safe space”. We will not allow anyone to use a “heckler’s veto” to declare a topic off limits because it offends them or “triggers” bad feelings.

This is the internet, not a hothouse for delicate flowers.




About Myiq2xu™

I lost everything in a Fonzie scheme.
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103 Responses to This is a safe place, not a “safe space”

  1. foxyladi14 says:

    Thank you Ole wise Grandad,
    Of the lovely Lily Bug. ❤

  2. foxyladi14 says:

  3. Myiq2xu says:

    Today we have: Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine and Nebraska holding either a primary or a caucus.

    There will be more states voting tomorrow, Tuesday and Saturday.

    Then some more after that.

    • 49erDweet says:

      So very, very happy CA waits until June. when it’s almost all over, before casting primary ballots. Who wants all the turmoil of being part of the decision making process? Too much responsibility.

      • Mt.Laurel says:

        Maryland is in May. But then one can predict the Circle D winner by just asking the DNC. Marylander’s are good little crabs. The R is not quite so predictable but by then just about everyone has pulled out.

        Virginia used to be later but moved up to super Tuesday as they felt their voice was not heard if it did not agree with the elites.

        DC has their R primary in March. Their D primary is the last one on the block before the convention in mdi June – because it will be a nail biter. ;).

        • swanspirit says:

          I thought Maryland was April 26?

        • Mt.Laurel says:

          I got a couple mailers that said may 10th. I was surprised because I have no party affiliation and had seen nothing about this being a year where they let us vote. But I just checked and your date matches the ap listing Guess someone does want pesky people to actually show up.

  4. Myiq2xu says:

    AofSHq Decision Desk Calls Kansas Caucuses for Cruz

    • DandyTIger says:

      Looks like Cruz has Maine too.

    • 1539days says:

      Fox kind of floated that story, at least on their radio stations. Kansas is a really conservative state. They voted for Sam Brownback.

      • DandyTIger says:

        Yeah. And Maine is interesting. The polling in both places indicated otherwise. Caucuses are really hard to gauge given how open, peer pressure, voting is quite different.

        • DeniseVB says:

          I think every prezzy election year, in my lifetime, we moan and groan about caucus states, yet they are still with us. What’s interesting to me, HRC, the presumptive Dem nom, and those whacky birds on the left are playing in the GOP primaries. NoVa makes sense now in their effort to vote for the candidate Hillary can easily beat. Rubio and Kasich did well as I recall. So Open States are just as evil.

          I do remember Ralph Nader saying in 2000, don’t blame me, if you want your guy to win, make it a landslide.

  5. DandyTIger says:

    Great post and reminder. Best thing about not having a dog in the fight, watching the fights. I like what I see from Trump not because I think he would do anything he says, would be nice if at least the border, but because it makes others heads explode. Cruz does that to some extent, but not the same. Rubio = Bush == Romney, so no thanks. I just wish Bernie could win on the Dem side, then the establishments failure would be complete (as Darth Vader would say).

    • 1539days says:

      I didn’t start off a Cruz supporter, I’m just one by default because he’s the one I’d vote for. If Trump becomes the nominee or the GOP pulls off a coup, or for some reason Trump loses outright, the Republican Party is in trouble. They were nearly dead in 2009. Then they got a transfusion of Tea Party in 2010. They’ve been trying to reject that transfusion for the last 5 years and it came back bigger and stronger as Donald Trump. The Republican Party of the last 30 years may be dead. It’s time to see what comes of it.

      • DandyTIger says:

        I think the GOP is in big trouble no matter what happens this cycle. Either they’re shifted towards working class americans ala Trump and a bit away from evangelicals and a lot away from Big Biz. Or they’re shifted more towards evangelicals ala Cruz and away from working class and Big Biz. Either way they change big time. And hard to know where the the groups less included go. And which ever one of those it is, if they lose against Hillary, they’re toast. And finally if they rob the voters of the front runner at the convention, likely Trump, then they’re really dead.

        • 49erDweet says:

          I agree if you’re talking about the established party. For me, since mid-FDR days the GOP was always a big tent party. The Dems at the time wanted MORE government. As if.
          The GOPe tent recently became quite small, selective and insular. I see Trump as rupturing the existing fabric and ushering in multitudes of new members. Big tent again. The cycle of life. IMO.

        • 49erDweet says:

          Growth spurts are always painful. Establishment guys have had their turn. Move over.

      • DeniseVB says:

        Walker right? Me too. To this day, I can’t figure out how Kasich survived this far and Perry and Walker didn’t. Wondering if “suspending campaign” now means if there’s a brokered convention, game back on ?

        • piper says:

          Walker suspended his campaign for several reasons – mainly his wife, Tonette, was concerned about the number of GOP candidates running, donations, campaign outlays, advisors and the media. He is again more of a doer not a charismatic speechifier.

          I prefers openness in discussions regarding the candidates not vile insults and denigrating comments about my choice which I’m seeing on several sites which have become Trump and Only Trump – which is why I posted that comment in the last thread.

          • piper says:

            My concern stems from the nastiness that I encountered when I refused to endorse/vote for Obama – his inferior governance / leadership along with his failed promises and increasing the national debt by trillions has proven me right in my non-support.

          • DeniseVB says:

            Scott was battle tested in WI, no way his wife would say give up so early in the primary season, because it’s hard and competitive.

          • piper says:

            We’ll have to agree to disagree on Walker and his wife’s decision to suspend his candidacy. Many people here in Wisconsin do not care for Walker, and I usually keep my opinions to myself when friends rip into him and his legislation. Yes I voted for him X3 as did many others but many people felt that Mary Burke, the dem. candidate, would have been 100 times worse than Walker. After checking her out I had a hard time figuring out why the democrat party would run such a poor candidate who ran off to South America when her family business fired her for poor business decisions – okay the word should be incompetence.

          • 1539days says:

            Democrats and Republicans usually can’t find good candidates when they know they’ll lose anyway against the other person.

  6. Myiq2xu says:

    The last sentence is the best:

    Peter Daou wrote about Markos Moulitsos, founder of DailyKos, and his announcement that he will be shifting his support to Hillary as soon as the nomination is wrapped up. Sorry, Bernie fans, time to get in line.
    Atrios yesterday wrote that he doubted that one person’s “Why I am Voting for So&So diary” is worth anything. I was happy to see Atrios embrace the idea that your vote is your own but I think he’s dead wrong about the value of the conversion diary. Maybe they’re not as powerful as they used to be but I saw DailyKos lose its collective mind and then get in line twice in 2007-2008. First, it went bat s^&* crazy over John Edwards, then when Edwards became non-viable, it became moonstruck over Obama.
    During the infamous Rec List Hostage Crisis of 2008, the pivot from Edwards to Obama was incredibly smooth. I could almost swear that the same people were writing those diaries.
    The value of the testimonial can not be underestimated. Maybe we should get John Dehlin, psychologist, former Mormon and host of Mormon Stories to come and explain how it works. The conversion or testimonial is particularly effective in groups that are also exercising other high control tactics, but we’ll get to that in a minute.
    A typical conversion story relates how a person is transformed by a moment of revelation. They become “born again” in some important way. People who study high control groups might say the convert’s behavior has been unduly influenced by informational, emotional and thought control. Go ahead, read about the BITE model and you’ll never see DailyKos in the same way again.
    That’s why I think Markos’s conversion story looks like it might not be important to those of us who have figured out how he operates even if it eventually does. His life is only going to change if his revelation leads to more advertising revenue from the Clinton campaign. Deep down inside, I doubt that Markos is wed to any one particular candidate. If anything, he seems to swing Libertarian and attracts the same guys who are stuck in adolescence who aren’t going to let any woman be the boss of them. It’s his business model.
    Also, the conversion story does not work in the absence of other features. There has to be praise of the convert. In many religions and high control groups, this would include love bombing. At DailyKos, love bombing is accomplished through the use of recommendations. If a diarist gets enough recommends, their diary can make it to the recommended diary list where its prominence will influence other Kossacks.
    The more you toe the founder’s line, the more mojo you get. That is, your level of authority, at DailyKos increases and you can achieve Trusted User status. A trusted user has very few privileges and while Kossacks are told they don’t mean much, they actually do. A Trusted user can demote recommendations. They are enforcers. A mob of enforcers can deplete a Kossack’s mojo completely. If you don’t stay with the herd, you can be excommunicated and banned from the site.
    This is what happened to me in January 2008 when I used the word “jihad” to explain how Obama supporters were mobbing other candidate’s supporters on DailyKos in order to get them banned. In the span of a couple hours, I went from being a trusted user to an exile. I was on to them by the time I posted that diary and while my diary was not meant to get me banned, I watched in fascination how efficiently and quickly the process worked. I guess to someone who likes to be one of a crowd, that might have been devastating and I saw other Kossacks try very hard to not it happen to them. But for me? It was no big deal. What I learned at DailyKos was that I could write well enough to make the rec list fairly frequently. So, I left and started The Confluence. I didn’t get the fame or the ad money but I’ve enjoyed it anyway.
    Those of you who still visit DailyKos can correct me if I’m wrong on any of this. Some of the rules of the game have changed since I was there last. The parameters of the model can be tweaked to keep everyone in line. But Markos knows what he’s doing and he set up his site to enforce conformity and a single message. Yes, there is a bit of wiggle room there. It’s like the difference between being a Methodist and a Presbyterian but it’s still Christianity. And when Markos signs the contract or gives the nod of the head, the machine works of his site will kick into gear and everyone will fall in line, write conversion diaries and disfellowship the apostates.
    It’s conformity on a grand blog scale.
    Maybe it doesn’t mean as much as it did 8 years ago. But Markos still attracts a lot of the same kind of people. They talk amongst themselves, reminisce about when they had their revelation and swallow their disappointments on queue when their leader gets “new light”. And when it came time to throw away rules, disenfranchise voters and abbreviate roll call votes in Denver, the Kossacks were enthusiastic supporters of all things not very Democratic. We ended up with an establishment president who is more conservative than just about anyone on DailyKos but by golly, they won, didn’t they? So what if they ripped their party in two in the meantime?
    They have a lot in common with Trump supporters.

    • 1539days says:

      I kind of figured it was RD when I read “love bombing.”

    • DandyTIger says:

      Funny. My experience with Trump supports is more of the uncouth blue collar, loud mouth variety. They’re too drunk to control much of anything. It’s establishment and puppets of establishment, like Obama or now Hillary, or Bush’s, that tend to have that approach.

    • taw46 says:

      Wow, that’s how DailyKos operates? Guess I was lucky I never went there.

      • leslie says:

        I remember trying to “go there” but really never understood the diary thing. I was uncomfortable there even when I supported JRE. It doesn’t seem to have changed any. So I’m glad I haven’t wasted my time trying to visit there in the last 8 years.

    • swanspirit says:

      That is an excess of verbiage just to. describe group think. Rd so frequently gets lost in the weeds. Succinct is not in her vocabulary.

    • DeniseVB says:

      Interesting discussion on that thread. Katiebird’s feeling the bern? Oh please. He’s an old white joo guy version of Obama.

      • leslie says:

        Remember emptywheel? I think she’s feeling the bern, too. But I may just be hallucinating. (It was a very long birthday party.)

  7. kanaughty says:

    because it’s mostly a caucus day, probs cruz and bernie will do well. i am so glad with all my moves, i still haven’t lived in a state where i had to caucus. (until i move back to washington eventually i guess) that seems like an annoying process to me and like high school with all the mean girl/guy manipulation. i noticed that so far even with ted winning maine and kansas, trump still gets delegates. and of course rubio is 3rd, but i bet his speeches tonight will sound like he thinks he actually won 🙂 haha

    • Myiq2xu says:

      I am generally in favor of decentralized power, but our presidential election system could use a little standardization and national coordination.

      Once again I will say that we should hold regional primaries and eliminate caucuses.

      • lyn says:

        All citizens should be encouraged to vote in open primaries, but the political parties do not want that. Oregonians voted down an open primary initiative in 2014, and the Democratic Party was its major opponent.

        • Myiq2xu says:

          In California we have a new thing for statewide offices where all the candidates compete against each other regardless of party and the two top vote getters face each other in the general – even if they are from the same party.

      • AFVet says:

        Yes and get rid of the winner take all states.
        It should be proportional.

  8. kanaughty says:

    and what’s with voting on saturdays? when i was living in new orleans, i thought that was the weirdest thing. so used to voting on tuesdays i guess.

  9. kanaughty says:

    lastly, the gope really messed up thinking people would really vote for a 3rd bush in the general. wow.

    mitt is too late now. i really respected (and voted for) mitt until that stunt he pulled the other day. it just made him seem like a too late jerk. like he seemed like a completely other person. and i wish he had been that tough against BO. where was that fightin’ mitt when we needed him to kick that dude out of the white house.

    it is basically trump v cruz at this point, neither of which the gope like because they can’t control them.

    • DeniseVB says:

      My dream ticket, as of my timestamp, is Trump/Cruz. Cruz is young and a smarty pants so he should breeze into the Oval in 2024. With VP Rubio 😉

      Oh, and where was fighting Mitt these past 4 years while Congress and the Supremes were rolling over and having their bellies rubbed by Obama? 😉

  10. lyn says:


  11. kanaughty says:

    anyhoo, thanks for your blog klown and all the blog post authors. i don’t comment much on here, but i read it every single day that i check my email. and i think i have friended most of you on twitter so i try to pay attention to your tweets.

    it’s funny when peeps call some of us trolls, but really we are mostly without a party or a person to support so we are seeing this from a neutral point of view and pointing out their biases.

    the whole nevertrump thing is bringing back memories of puma. but puma was about the party not treating hillary w the respect she deserved and taking away her delegates for that no experience celebrity wanna be – where as nevertrump seems to be against the voters who are voting for trump and so the nevertrumpers want their party to fix it at the convention.

    • Myiq2xu says:

      There is something inherently wrong with a system that allows the establishment to overrule the voters.

      • lyn says:

        I’ll never register as a Democrat because of the super delegates.

      • Underwhelmed says:

        Wrong. Corrupt. Arrogant. Fraudulent. Either voters have a direct say in who stands for president, or – like us – they don’t. We vote for the party, and then the party decides who leads it and becomes prime minister. Likewise for whoever is in opposition. Now it does get tricky when party shenanigans kick up and a sitting pm is ousted by his/her own party apparatus. We’ve had a lot of that crap lately and it hasn’t done us any favours. But, at the end of the day, if the party head honcho keeps the confidence of the electorate and his/her colleagues, no problem. But in your case, in the US, what we’re seeing is a breathtaking display of hubris on the part of the party aparatchiks. It’s the Henry Ford model of electioning: YOu can have any candidate you like, provided it’s the one we pick. Disgusting. I don’t want your country to suffer any more than it has under that abomination currently in the WH, but — if it has to burn down to clear out the corruption, so be it.

  12. Myiq2xu says:

    If Ted Cruz has a big night, where does that leave Marco?

  13. elliesmom says:

    My grandson and his dad went on a Boy Scout camping trip this weekend. My daughter had to be in her studio today for an open house. So I ended up with Crash for the day. I took her to a doll show thinking we’d see baby dolls, little girl dolls, and maybe some high fashion dolls. No. We saw a whole display of dolls turned into corpses. Zombies, ghouls, and mythical creatures of the dark and violent variety. I asked Crash if she wanted to leave, but she said “Why, this is cool!” Somehow I don’t think she’s going to be looking for “safe spaces”. The Edward Scissorhand doll was quite well done.

  14. driguana says:

    Great post, Klown. Always value the opinions here even if we con’t always agree. Makss it enlightening. Oh, and by the way, there were some great college basketball games on today, still are. Go Xavier!!! (you can take the boy out of Cincinnati but you can’t take the Cincinnati out of the boy…or something like that…regardless…X marks the spot!)

  15. DeniseVB says:

    Me: On political blogs. Something “shiny” always works 😉

  16. DeniseVB says:

    LOL, spot the error on the Kentucky ballot 😉 via MOTuS

  17. 49erDweet says:

    Those Canadian names are hard to spell.

  18. DeniseVB says:

    Trump Slobber Bucket Carriers welcomed here 😉

    “If you have nothing nice to say about any of the other candidates, D or R, come sit by me”

  19. DeniseVB says:

    Looks like Rubio is having a bad night. His numbers are a skosh above Kasich in the Super Saturday returns.

    Meanwhile, in other news, Lena Dunham haz an owie.

  20. Dora says:

  21. lyn says:

    Here’s the best tweet so far: Of course, Cruz won in Maine; it’s next to Canada.

  22. Dora says:

    Pretty good night for The Donald.

  23. Dora says:

  24. Somebody says:

    Completely off topic from the election……We went to one of those escape rooms this afternoon with our two daughters and it was a blast. We didn’t beat the record time, but we were only over it by 35 seconds!

    You’re allowed 3 extra clues or hints really from the staff over a walkie talkie, they thought we were going to be the first group to make it out without asking for any hints. The set up of the place we went to each adventure is actually two rooms. You have to get out of the 1st and into the second to find the key to get out. They said we were the first group to make it out of the 1st room and into the second without asking for help!

    You had to find clues, solve various kinds of puzzles which would then lead to another clue or a key to a lock or a tool you were going to need to help solve something or to find more clues/puzzle pieces. Our adventure was medical themed so for instance, we found several odd shaped laminated pieces we thought were part of another puzzle, but it wasn’t really. They didn’t all fit together and we tore the place apart looking for more. Then it hit me, there was an eye chart on the wall, sure enough we put those pieces over the chart and it spelled out something, which helped solve the next to the last puzzle.

    We almost made it out of the final room without the any help, but we just couldn’t do it and time was getting short. The final puzzle was an alphabet lock with five letters. We had all the letters, but couldn’t figure out the proper order. Once we opened that lock inside was the key to get out. The solution to the order of the letters was something from the first room and it wasn’t completely obvious it was a two stage kind of thing…..this plus this gets you that.

    My eldest daughter did NOT want to ask for clues, she wanted us to solve it all on our own, but alas at the very end we did have to ask for help. In fact I asked for a second hint right after the first. That really ticked my daughter off because she said I didn’t give anyone enough time to digest the 1st hint, LOL! The owners were kind of bummed too, they really thought we were going to be the first group to get out without any assistance. I don’t think we would have, but my daughter insists we had enough time and I jumped the gun asking for help. To be fair to me we had discussed it and all agreed it was time to ask for help……….although when that first hint didn’t spell it all out I did immediately ask for another one without consulting anybody else, LOL!

    It really was a lot of fun, in fact everybody wants to do it again. Obviously we’ll pick a different escape next time and who knows maybe we’ll solve it without help the next time. It was good clean fun and would be a great thing for a family or a group of friends.

    • leslie says:

      Sounds like a great time!! Thanks for letting us in on the great escape (one of my most favorite movies). 🙂

  25. Myiq2xu says:

  26. Myiq2xu says:

  27. Myiq2xu says:

  28. smile says:

    Thanks for this post, myiq. I don’t post here often, but I visit daily and read all comments. I come here for relaxation and for being with open-minded, free-thinking people who appreciate the same in others. The last 2-3 weeks, I had been considering stopping my daily visits here because it no longer felt like that “neighbourhood bar” and it felt that only Trump supporters were welcome here and it seemed that it was okay for Trump supporters to mock the other candidates, but not okay for non-Trump supporters to mock Trump. So when I did want to make a comment, I refrained from making it because I don’t really care to get attacked as I have seen Piper and 1538Days and some others get pushed around for their non-support for Trump. It is just not my style or personality to cause an argument or be in one. I am sure there is some unkind internet word for someone like me, but I am who I am. I am sure I am not alone here and I am sure there are other lurkers who feel similar to me. Then again, I am mostly a lurker, not a frequent poster, so in a sense, not so important to this blog’s content. Anyway, thanks again for wanting to keep this blog a safe place to come to, as it has been for me since it began.

    • dm says:

      I agree with much of what you said, but I either haven’t followed comments closely enough to witness any pushing around or my perception of the interactions are different. It seems that some supporters are extremely passionate about their candidate. I see that on this and other boards and not just Trump supporters. I got slammed on another board recently by Cruz supporters, even though that blog is “neutral”. Funny thing is, I am a Cruz supporter. They just didn’t want to hear anything approaching objective when it came to Trump. Although, I haven’t really found a Rubio board…nobody here likes him – I think. I just try to approach everyone with a calm demeanor and a smile and understand that sometimes people can get a little caught up. I LOVE this board, I LOVE the posts, and I LOVE the commenters, so I hope you continue to participate.

    • leslie says:

      smile, et al, please don’t leave. It does become uncomfortable here from time to time, but it’s kind of like a family (or close-knit neighborhood).
      There’s a line spoken by Eleanor in the play “The Lion in Winter” that more or less sums up what it sometimes feels like to me when it feels more prickly.
      She says, “What family doesn’t have its ups and downs.”
      That usually helps keep me grounded because I love it here.

  29. Venus says:

    I know it’s not “Throw Back Thursday” yet, but look at little 2016 Trump Hater Ben Shaprio (who has single-handidly ruined the Breitbart brand) back in 2011:

    The Magic of Donald Trump [snip]

    Mitt Romney has about as much charm as a Ziploc bag, and his support for Romneycare in Massachusetts should immediately put him out of the running. [snip]

    If Republicans were to construct an ideal candidate, he would have to be rich beyond belief — Obama is going to raise $1 billion for his next election campaign, and no Republican candidate has the ability to come close to those numbers without deep pockets. The ideal Republican candidate would have significant name recognition with the general public — no Republican candidate has ever won the presidency without significant name recognition going into the primaries since Warren G. Harding in 1920. The ideal Republican candidate would have stage presence, an intimidation fac
    In the last several weeks,
    that ideal Republican candidate has materialized.

    I love when hypocrites get busted.

    • Venus says:

      I cut of end of the quote:

      His name is Donald Trump. His slogan is ready-made: “You’re Fired.” He does not give a damn what the media thinks of him — he steamrolled Meredith Vieira during his NBC interview with her last week. He can self-fund to the tune of $1 billion.

      And what’s more, he can win

      I love when hypocrites get busted.

  30. Mt.Laurel says:

    This episode played earlier tonight and I thought it might lighten the mood. I hope this pastes. It is a short clip from the Golden Girls where Dorothy calls Merv the “Anti-Trump”.

  31. swanspirit says:

    I am glad and grateful for this safe place. As long as we can ridicule and express disgusts for John Cole, I am a happy camper.

  32. lyn says:

    It’s raining cats and dogs in southern Oregon.

  33. Lulu says:

    It is turning too much like 2008. Honest differences of opinion, life lessons, areas of interest or importance are not tolerated very well. If at all. I do not think the country is going to last as a union. Being told non-stop how stupid, ignorant and trashy you are is not only tiresome but leads to separation. Factionalism goes back to the days of the founders but was overcome in national crisis. We ARE in crisis as a nation both politically and economically but it is not going to come together this time. The fissures are too deep. I’m tired of watching it all implode.

  34. helenk3 says:

    Thank you for this post. This is a great place to be. I only comment on three blogs. Here, No Quarter, and Rev Amy’s place.

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