There Is No Truth Nor Fiction – Just Narratives

Did you ever wonder what it would be like if Paul Bunyon was black? A few years ago we learned that Santa Claus was black. So were Jeebus and James Bond. But at least three of those people are fictional characters (Santa is REAL!!!) so changing their skin color (or gender) is just a matter of a few keystrokes. What if we could change inconvenient or undesirable facts about real people?


Queen & Slim retells the Bonnie and Clyde myth as a story about blackness in America

Queen & Slim, starring Daniel Kaluuya and Jodie Smith-Turner in a tale of young lovers on the run, invites comparisons to the story of Bonnie and Clyde from the drop. It’s the tale, sometimes bloody, of two doomed young lovers on the run from the law — a familiar American archetype.

But if Queen & Slim is consciously playing with that story, it’s also subverting it. The real-life Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow were thieves and criminals who captured national attention in the early 1930s, the press telling breathless (and sometimes souped-up) stories of their swaggering exploits. They died in an ambush on May 23, 1934, at the ages of 23 and 25, respectively, and their deaths became the seeds of a legend.

The story has been retold on screen and in song many times since then, and always with an edge of revolt. Prominent directors have taken a crack at it, remixing the facts to tell their own tale: Nicholas Ray’s They Live By Night (1950), Arthur Penn’s Bonnie and Clyde (1967), Terence Malick’s Badlands (1973), Robert Altman’s Thieves Like Us (1974), Ridley Scott’s Thelma & Louise (1991), Oliver Stone’s Natural Born Killers (1994, from a screenplay by Quentin Tarantino), Kelly Reichardt’s River of Grass (1994), and David Lowery’s Ain’t Them Bodies Saints (2013) all trace their origins back to Bonnie and Clyde in one way or another.

With a screenplay by The Chi’s Lena Waithe, this version of the Bonnie and Clyde tale stars Daniel Kaluuya and Jodie Turner-Smith as two Clevelanders who meet at a diner for a Tinder date and don’t particularly hit it off. But on the way home, they get pulled over, and the police officer — who, it later turns out, had shot a black man several years ago in a similar circumstance — ends up getting shot by accident instead. The pair panic and take off together, virtual strangers forced into a familiar framework.


Penn’s 1967 Bonnie and Clyde, which starred Faye Dunaway and Warren Beatty as the pair in a sexy, sometimes shockingly violent romance, became a rallying cry for disaffected countercultural youth. But in that film and others, Bonnie and Clyde court and enjoy the notoriety that media attention brings to them; they’re the symbols of alluring danger, of youthful rebellion.

Not so much for Queen and Slim. They don’t want to be the face of anything. Yet they live in a tinderbox America, ready to flame, and as their faces begin to appear on the news as the subjects of a nationwide manhunt, they become the symbol of something much different than other Bonnies and Clydes. They’re not icons of generational revolt. They’re the face of frustration with police violence and a world where having to shoot in self-defense will never suffice as an explanation, not if you’re black.

And so they become a symbol for the watching nation of triumphing over trauma, even as they don’t feel particularly triumphant. Waithe told Entertainment Weekly that the film is “a rebel cry,” but that it’s also about the trauma she feels watching the news: “I think when people hear about black people being killed by cops, they know that it’s sad, they know that it’s not right. But as a black person, there’s no one there to hold my hand. There’s no one there to rub my back and tell me that I’m okay, that we’re going to be okay.”

It’s a subversive and powerful way to retell the Bonnie and Clyde myth for a new era — but also to reexamine what that myth has meant (something that Thelma and Louise’s feminist retelling did as well). It was possible to shade the story of a gun-toting white couple on the run from the law as glamorous and electric, a symbol of freedom and rebellion on the open road. But in the American imagination, that pair always had to be white, even if all the other details were fictionalized. To make them black would be to imbue the story with some other element, some fear that white America has chosen to tell in very different sorts of movies.

Queen & Slim turns that on its head, without getting too explicit about what it’s doing; it’s still at core a moving doomed love story about two real people stuck in an unfair situation they can’t escape. It’s a Bonnie and Clyde tale worth telling today — not just for how it calls back to our past, but how it dwells with our uncomfortable present.

Legend? Rallying cry for disaffected youth?

What the fuck?

B&C were a little before my time, but I remember the 1967 Bonnie and Clyde movie. That was 52 years ago. (That I can remember the movie at all is amazing when you consider that I am only plenty-nine.) But in 1967 pretty much any American over the age of forty would be able to remember the real deal.

I remember that there was some controversy, but what I recall people talking about was the fact that Hollywood made B&C seem glamourous. Warren Beatty was Brad Pitt before Brad Pitt, and Faye Dunaway still looks pretty good now. But the real B&C were neither glamorous nor even particularly good-looking.

Clyde Barrow was a career criminal before he met Bonnie Parker. After they teamed up they went on a two-year spree of robbery, murder and occasional jaywalking. The conventional wisdom used to be that they gained fame and notoriety because they robbed banks during an era when banks were widely despised because bank failures had wiped out people’s life savings and the banks that didn’t fail were foreclosing on homes and small farms.

I honestly don’t know how popular they really were, but they didn’t rob that many banks. (Clyde preferred robbing gas stations.) Mr. Barrow and Miss Parker were basically extremely violent small-time crooks who chose the outlaw life and died an outlaw death. You could call Clyde a serial killer or a spree killer – both terms are accurate, Parker and Barrow were nobodies. Bonnie & Clyde, on the other hand, were two of the first media-created celebrities.

Back in the early 30’s radio and automobiles were still the latest things in high tech. You couldn’t buy a decent television and there was literally nothing to watch anyway. Going on the internet was a big waste of time too. The Information Superhighway in 1932 consisted of a World-Wide Web of telegraph lines and dead-tree journalists.

News editors figured out they could sell more newspapers by using sensationalism. So they pumped up true stories and embellished others. Sometimes they made schitt up. B&C were soon reading about the fictionalized versions of themselves. Eventually, B&C were trying to emulate their own press clippings.


1. (especially in journalism) the use of exciting or shocking stories or language at the expense of accuracy, in order to provoke public interest or excitement.

This may shock you but once upon a time the news media was not nearly as obsessive about factual accuracy as they are today. Even worse, you couldn’t count on Snopes to hold them accountable. Think about how badly the news media handled the cases of St. Trayvon of the Sidewalk and the Gentle Giant of Ferguson. Imagine how much worse it would have been if there was no Fox News or alternative news media

So where did the Juicevox writer get the idea that B&C 1967 was a rallying cry for disaffected youth? I clicked on the link she gave, and it took me to a Juicevox article from 2017 written by . . . the same author. You can read more about the author here.

Last but not leashed, what is the point of making a “black Bonnie and Clyde?” Are you trying to show that Black people are capable of committing violent crimes? Will Queen and Slim meet a different fate than B&C because they are black? Why did Thelma and Louise choose suicide?

If this post makes no sense, it’s because the Juicevox article makes no sense.


About Myiq2xu - BA, JD, FJB

I was born and raised in a different country - America. I don't know what this place is.
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201 Responses to There Is No Truth Nor Fiction – Just Narratives

  1. DandyTIger says:

    Sounds like a movie to skip. There’s more realism in the Avengers. 🙂

  2. Myiq2xu™ says:

  3. Mothy67 says:

    I used to go to Drudge first thing in the morning. I stopped a few years ago when it became anti Trump.

  4. votermom says:

    The story has been retold on screen and in song many times since then, and always with an edge of revolt. Prominent directors have taken a crack at it, remixing the facts to tell their own tale: Nicholas Ray’s They Live By Night (1950), Arthur Penn’s Bonnie and Clyde (1967), Terence Malick’s Badlands (1973), Robert Altman’s Thieves Like Us (1974), Ridley Scott’s Thelma & Louise (1991), Oliver Stone’s Natural Born Killers (1994, from a screenplay by Quentin Tarantino), Kelly Reichardt’s River of Grass (1994), and David Lowery’s Ain’t Them Bodies Saints (2013) all trace their origins back to Bonnie and Clyde in one way or another.

    Badlands is actually loosely based on the 1958 killing spree of Charles Starkweather and his girlfriend Caril Ann Fugate.

  5. Mothy67 says:

  6. votermom says:

    I haven’t done ANY black friday shopping!
    … I must be dead

    • Constance says:

      I didn’t cook Thanksgiving dinner this year and I didn’t step foot out of my house today even though it was a beautiful sunny day. It’s been a great holiday.

    • DeniseVB says:

      One of my pet peeves about msm is the scorekeeping of Pres.Trump’s visits/stays at his properties and number of times he’s played golf. Now they’re pushing how much it costs taxpayers while he makes a “profit” ? That is such fake news, he doesn’t charge the govt for those stays, he plays on golf courses he owns, also, he’s still working on those visits. He plays golf with heads of state and politicians, he’s the master of using golf as a business tool. Stays at US embassies when he travels abroad.

      OK, now do Obama. Used military golf courses often displacing regular troops their privilege to use them. Used junior staff to play with him so he could smoke a pack of cigs out of MO’s/media sights. Never went to the family home in Chicago for holidays and breaks, always to private rented villas. Stayed at 5-Star hotels when he traveled abroad as POTUS.

      We scorekept Obama because he wasn’t doing anything else, for America that is 😉

      • Myiq2xu™ says:

        When any POTUS stays at a hotel the Secret Service requires that all the rooms on that floor, as well as rooms above and below his room, are either vacant or occupied by US personnel. Either way, we pick up the tab for those rooms.

        A former boss of mine was a teenager and was in San Francisco at the time of the GOP convention in 1952 or 1956. This was before JFK was killed, obviously. He and his buddy decided they wanted to meet DDE. They made it all the way onto the floor of the hotel where Ike was staying. before being intercepted by a single Secret Service agent.

        They weren’t even in any trouble – they were just escorted out of the hotel and told not to return.

        • Myiq2xu™ says:

          I wrote this comment, hit “post comment” and then jumped up and ran to the grocery store. When I got back I saw that I did not post it. I’ve been doing that a lot lately.

  7. DandyTIger says:

    Results of black Friday shopping: got all my Christmas shopping done. Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful. 🙂

  8. taw46 says:

    I so want to buy this to wrap gifts for my two relatives.

  9. Island Girl says:

    Seeing this mentioned elsewhere, we absolutely enjoyed The Highwaymen movie tonight and Beautiful Girl afterwards, which we have seen probably 100 times and still laugh. Cheers!

  10. Island Girl says:


  11. Myiq2xu™ says:

    Senor Douchecanoe locked his account. I guess he didn’t like all the people telling him to stick his head where the sun don’t shine.

    • Myiq2xu™ says:

      He’s a producer for the Daily Shit.

    • Cisco says:

      Nice way to treat your grandfather, you prick.
      Did you ever stop to think your grandfather might be on the cusp of Alzheimer’s or some other affliction that in some cases comes with old age?
      Instead of treating him with respect you mock him by dressing him like a court jester.
      If we were family members and I found out you did that to our grandfather, I’d be calling other family members to bail me out of jail.
      Ok, here comes the part that may get this rant deleted.
      Brandon, your father’s father gave him life and you mock him.
      You should have been a nocturnal emission washed out of the sheets on laundry day.
      Damn! I feel better now.

    • DeniseVB says:

      Why would you publicly humiliate your grandpa on social media? That’s douche-worthy right there. Oh wait, he’s a comedy writer? Geeesh, more proof the left can’t meme and why comedy shows suck these days 😛

  12. threewickets says:

    Faking shootings, faking hijacked planes, faking dead people, these may be MSM narratives. They are also planned and organized lies to the American people. It is not fuzzy gray or complicated.

    • swanspirit says:

      Armond White’s review a worth a read.
      I personally would not remotely be interested in wasting time or money on seeing what looks to be a bad B movie.

      Queen & Slim, a Meme Movie for Black Lives Matter Fans

      Black Hollywood’s new self-exploitation
      Queen & Slim, the new Blaxploitation movie (more on that later), is primarily an attempt at myth-making. The advertising poster showing an unnamed black male-and-female duo striking a casually defiant pose sums up the film itself — in which the two main characters are never named. It’s an indication that in Millennial narratives, memes and iconography play a greater role than storytelling.

      The story in Queen & Slim converts a lovers-on-the-lam format — Daniel Kaluuya and Jodie Turner-Smith meet on a Tinder blind date — to an archetypal nightmare. The blacks are pulled over by a white policeman and, during the subsequent altercation, the couple wind up as cop-killers and instant folk heroes.

      Screenwriters Lena Waithe (an intersectional media celebrity) and notorious novelist James Frey perpetuate the idea that black Americans are victimized by the police — a political notion that gained traction just as Obama was leaving office and the nation’s ethnic populace felt bereft of any real social advantage. Queen & Slim is part of the grievance industry that grew from that disappointment. The filmmakers presume that audiences automatically distrust police; race-based social paranoia is used to sell martyr chic.

      Queen & Slim perverts the road-movie genre that is usually about social exploration, not bias confirmation. Every classic ’70s road movie offered a picaresque survey of cultural differences that illustrated the multiplicity of American life. (Bonnie & Clyde, Easy Rider, Five Easy Pieces, Badlands, The Sugarland Express, and Thieves Like Us reflected skeptical concerns of their time.) But Queen & Slim poorly reiterates the post–Ferguson, Mo., canards from Michael Brown’s fictitious “hands-up don’t shoot” to the Sandra Bland, Freddie Gray, and Tamir Rice mythologies.

    • threewickets says:

      I was responding to the header. The movie looks fine. I don’t know about the social justice politicking, but it looks well acted.

  13. Dora says:

  14. Dora says:

    • 1539days says:

      This is just like all the Morning Joe interviews in 2015-2016. They all gave Trump air time because they wanted him to get the nomination assuming he would lose big to Hillary. The worst part is that they’re not bothered about trying to manipulate the primaries, they’re embarrassed they helped get him elected president.

  15. taw46 says:

    The authorities seem to ALWAYS know the terrorists. And release them early from prison, as is the case with this one. Or never send them to prison in the first place.

  16. Dora says:

  17. Cisco says:

    Just a little reminder for Chicago hostages.
    “A warning to holiday travelers: Chicago’s overnight parking ban begins early Sunday, Dec. 1, so be careful where you park. The parking ban is enforced regardless of snow on 107 miles of main streets in the city between 3 a.m. to 7 a.m., according to the Chicago Dept. of Streets and Sanitation. The ban lasts through April 1, 2020.

    Violators can face a $150 towing fee, $60 ticket and $20 storage fee charge per day of storage.

    The city said drivers can avoid violations by checking street signage. A complete map of impacted streets can be found on the city’s website.
    Traditionally, around 100 cars get towed in the early AM hours of 01 December. However, last year, the City snatched nearly 300 cars, probably to help close Rahm’s extensive budget gaps. We’re not even going to try to set the over/under tonight.”
    🎩tip SCC

  18. DandyTIger says:

    A little Marc to warm the cockles

    • Cisco says:

      Not…nasty me, I thought it was gonna be porn, not that I’d watch.😈
      Here in Chicago there’s a radio station that plays Christmas themed music 24/7 starting the day after Thanksgiving, today 👏
      Ends the day after Christmas.
      Frosty the Snowman, Rudolf the Red Nose Reindeer by Gene Autry, Baby it’s Cold Outside, the non-pc version.
      Many more by Sinatra, Dean Martin, Nat King Cole and of course the great Der Bingle.
      Ah, 🎄⛄️🎄

      • lateblum says:

        Which one? The one I know about started the day after Halloween. I was startled to hear it.

        • Cisco says:

          93.9 LITE FM
          It started November 8th!
          Boy did I miss that 🙁
          But listening now😁
          There may be more stations but I listen to LITE because in the evening people having a rough time can call in with a Christmas wish and receive it.
          The hostess who’s name I cannot recall listens to some really heart breaking stories.

      • michelina says:


    • lateblum says:

      Dandy, this was wonderful! I’ve never heard of Marc Martel until now,but I think this will be my second favorite version of The Little Drummer Boy. Right next to my dd#1 8th grade children’s choir.
      Thank you for this. And for starting the season with a really great (and new to me) Christmas song. 🎄💕🎄

    • DeniseVB says:

      Love Marc Martel, his Queen cover tour has sold out all over the world. Including Norfolk,Va, which I missed 😦 SMH.

    • DeniseVB says:

      More Marc love, he did this in one take, over 33 million views 🙂

  19. lateblum says:

    I brought this over and then forgot what it is related to because I was caught up in everything else I was reading – and responding to – here. This will be a surprise for all of us! Lol.

  20. DeniseVB says:

    Godfather’s “Sonny’s” death scene was inspired by the Bonnie and Clyde movie ending. It was done in one take (with 5 cameras at different angles) to save money, here’s a still, the video is too graphic. There were more than 140 squibs (a tiny gunpowder cap that spurts blood) attached to James Caan’s body, the techs warned him these were the most they’ve ever attached to an actor, Caan’s acting was real in this scene. LoL 😉

  21. Dora says:

    I didn’t know what it was.


    Narwhals inspired many a seafaring legend and their tusks were once sold as unicorn horns

  22. Cisco says:

    Tossed out of the Navy for drug use, coma-moka.
    Has a penchant for strip clubs and their pole dancers, gets one pregnant and now is a dead beat father.
    But HIS tax records can’t be released or so says his attorney because, wait for it…

    Biden filed a request to seal all financial records in the paternity case in Arkansas this week, the Daily Mail reported.

    ⭐️Biden’s lawyers argue that media organizations have been covering the case, and that the likelihood his personal financial records could “be used in an inappropriate or malicious manner for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with these proceedings is exceedingly high and should not be tolerated by the court,” ⭐️according to the records obtained by the Mail.

    “Due to the extraordinary circumstances surrounding the parties involved in this matter, it is in the interest of justice and necessary for a Protective Order to be in place,” the court papers state.
    But of course Trump must release HIS tax returns.
    Full story over at NYP.

  23. taw46 says:

  24. DandyTIger says:

    From Brad Torgersen’s FB page:

    An opinion: it’s not even Trump they hate. He is merely a symbol. What they detest deep down is that the Little People talked back, in the form of Trump. We’re dealing with technocrats. Media, politicians, academics, and entertainers who believe firmly that they are set apart and raised above. Who know better than the likes of you and me. And their will was denied in 2016. It was a gargantuan bruise on their collective elitist ego. They will not forgive. So they double down on trying to remove Trump by whatever means necessary. To show the Little People that talking back will not be tolerated.

    • lyn says:

      Wait until the Little People start shooting these assholes.

    • lateblum says:

      Well it’s Trump dd#1 hates. So do her friends who work in corporate America. Sad. She lost her job in Obama’s America and found this wonderful position in Trumps America but she sees no correlation.

      • DeniseVB says:

        My dh walks with his old geezer friends every morning and he’s the only Trump supporter, the rest hate him, so he tries to avoid politics. If one of them wants to push his buttons, they’ll bring up an MSNBC and CNN Trump Slam du jour. I’ve been trying to get him to just respond with “fake news” and DO NOT DEBATE, lol, blood pressure concerns.

        Until Thanksgiving, when they poked him with Trump sitting on his fat ass stuffing his face and playing golf all weekend, then the news broke from Afghanistan 😀 Stuff like that gives him the glees ! Imagine, snowflakes in their 70’s, lol !

  25. Dora says:

    This is scary.


    LA County Intoduces E-Voting System: Not Hand-Marked, Not Paper, Not Hand-Counted In Public

  26. Dora says:

  27. DeniseVB says:

    Jumpin’ Jehoshaphat, here comes No Malarkey ! 😛

  28. helenk3 says:

    best decoration so far

  29. Dora says:

  30. helenk3 says:

    another short fat man trying to make himself important

  31. Mothy67 says:

    I guess the left is going after another career. Singer Eric Caremen dared to say he was a nationalist.

    • DeniseVB says:

      Reminds me, Jon Voight is in that Showtime series Roy Donovan ? Saw a trailer and was surprised such a public supporter of Pres.Trump can find work in Hollywood 🙂

  32. lyn says:

  33. Mothy67 says:

  34. lyn says:

    I was going to rent “The Art of Racing in the Rain,” but I picked “The Nightingale” instead.

  35. Angie says:


  36. taw46 says:

  37. DandyTIger says:

    • lyn says:

      And Joe is the front runner. If the Dems were smart, they would sit 2020 out because of all the shit they’ve thrown at President Trump. It’s as if the people want to make the Dems sit this one out. LOL.

  38. Jadzia says:

    So last night was our Thanksgiving with what felt like probably half of the local Mormon community, including our town’s 2 American missionaries. The lack of funeral potatoes was disappointing but we are all stuffed nevertheless. My 13 year old, who made an awesome pecan pie with a homemade crust, is a bit salty about his relegation to the kids table, but what can ya do. Time to pack up my Halloween decorations (SHUT UP) and get ready for Christmas.

  39. Somebody says:

    Scanning my newsfeed this morning and OMG. There is a Slate article about Prince Andrew that has POTUS’s picture next to Andrew’s. You guessed it, they tie the two men claiming POTUS is as bad or worse.

    Then there was an article from the NYT about an increase in white supremacy in NJ. Be afraid, be very afraid, two men recently arrested one had Pepe the frog on his computer. Massive increase, a hotbed of activity……of course it increased after POTUS was elected, you knew that was coming. Orange man bad. Finally get to point, increase from 4 arrests the year before POTUS to 7 this year.

    Then continues on to report big mistake with FBI, huge. Took their eye off white supremacy ball and focused on Islamic terrorism. Now Islamic terrorism has waned (good to know, when did that happen), white supremacy is on a massive uptick, be afraid, very afraid. Noticed article written by Ali Watkins of FISA application fame. She was sleeping with the senate foreign relations aid that texted her the FISA warrant on Carter Page.

    I didn’t click on the story about tornadoes, I’m betting they were POTUS’s fault though. How could they possibly not be his fault 🙄

    • DeniseVB says:

      Meanwhile, over in Charlottesville, they want to remove a Lewis and Clark statue because Sacagawea was not treated properly or something. SMH.

      POTUS has had his photo taken with thousands of people, including a lot of future bad people and pervs. The media never got tingly over all those friendly photos with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson giving him civil rights awards ? Hmmm?

      • Somebody says:

        This isn’t even a picture of POTUS and Andrew together. It’s a picture of Andrew and the same size picture of POTUS beside it. In fact Andrew is in his military uniform, an officer and a gentleman….wink and nod 🙄

        The article is by Lili Loofbourow. Never heard of her, she has another article on their page titled “The Impeachment Hearings have shown the cost of Trump’s narcissism”. So that’s probably all you need to know about Lili.

        • DeniseVB says:

          It made me think of the one photo of Trump with Epstein a few weeks ago and the assumption Trump was on the Lolita Express, of course ! Yeah, all they have to do is put anybody’s photo, even next to Trump, to link him to nasty thoughts. The media are the real pervs like that 😛

  40. Dora says:

    And deservedly so.


    Opinion: Anti-Trump Mayor Khan Absolutely Destroyed Online After Yet Another Terror Attack in London

    Under Mayor Khan’s failed “leadership” the city of London has gone from a safe amazing and charming city to a bloody stab-fest.

  41. Dora says:

    I’m sure a free trip to Spain will be nice, but what about the impeachment proceedings? Is nervous nancy running away?


    Pelosi heading to Madrid for UN climate change convention

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) will lead a delegation of congressional Democrats to the United Nations climate change conference in Madrid next week, her office announced Saturday.

    Pelosi and 14 other Democrats from both chambers of Congress will attend the 2019 United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, also called COP25, her office said.

  42. Pingback: Sorta Blogless Sunday Pinup » Pirate's Cove

  43. Somebody says:

    OMG, I think I’m going to get divorced over an office, gawd help me. I freely admit that I’m the one that has gone off in anger. I’ve actually surprised myself at my visceral reactions, but I am not willing to back down and I’m tired of all of it. So totally open to suggestions of a nice, non bitchy, way to express myself.

    Back story. As long as we’ve lived in this house until only a couple of months ago I had a small office. Said office was also a corridor leading to laundry room and garage, but had doors and could be closed off at both ends. It was the original laundry room in our floor plan but we bumped out garage carving out a laundry room at one end and extra garage space at the other. We put built ins where the space was reset for W/D. Think of a hallway with bifold doors that open where your W/D is.

    So I had this little office with built in cabinets and counter. Had my computer there, file drawers, tall office cabinet, the printer, etc. Ran homeschool, all my volunteer work, research etc. In addition to that, the middle bedroom became “the school room”. Shelves lined one wall, loaded with books. Text books, reference books, etc. Another large bookcase held classics, from early childhood through adult. In essence the room functioned as a library. The large closet which is 4 feet deep held craft items, educational games, microscope, you name it. Call it a teacher’s supply closet.

    This is getting long, so I’ll do another post, but this is the background of how things were. Other background, hubby had desk in eat in area by his choice, same desk used to be in our bedroom. When he started working from home he bought a beast of a desk, the kind that raises and lowers. (Side note, aside from showing people how it goes up and down he’s never actually used the standing feature). His desk is 5 feet long and 3 feet deep. Due to the nature of his work he needs multiple monitors, plus his laptop. He chooses to use a keyboard and mouse instead of typing on laptop, because it’s easier on his wrists and I agree it’s better for him.

    • Somebody says:

      OK, true confession this is definitely a 1st world problem.

      So that’s where things were. I had my little office. Hubby had his desk the size of a dead yak in his man cave, which is the garage (heated and cooled garage), with stereo and 4k TV. Daughter is in college, but school room remained, I used some stuff with grandkids, but mostly it was turning into a catch all junk room.

      Back in the spring we put in a new HVAC system. Hubby decided to move it out of the garage and into the house. It would be more energy efficient and free up space in the man cave for tools or who knows what. He felt the most logical place and easiest place was to put the unit where my office is. He made these arrangements and headed back to NJ leaving me to deal with emptying office and removing cabinets. I had 5 wholes days, not that I’m bitter about it…..OK, maybe a little, OK, maybe a lot. 😂

      He thought turning my old office into a nice big closet with the air handler at one end and shelves at the other to hold things like suitcases and other odd items was a winner. Except the new unit is a beast and pretty much takes up all the room and currently is hideous but he promises doors, one day.

      The idea he had was to clean out the school room as we no longer need it and turn it into a nice big office for ME! Oh, that’s nice….I like that 😁 How sweet, I’m a lucky gal……even if I did have to move all this crap, paint put down flooring…..not bitter, no, no, it helped me grow as a person, it built character 😜 I’ve also spent weeks cleaning out the school room. I’ve been quite the hit with teachers and scout leaders around here. I have 4 boxes of stuff to sell on eBay come spring, but alas the school room is ready to turn into my mac daddy office!!!

      OK, the big reveal will be in the next post. BTW cleaning out school room also involved work in other rooms, some by choice I freely admit…..lots of work though, just saying.

      • Somebody says:

        The big reveal, hubby decides the school room turned office would be a great place for HIM. He can be inside, closer to me. The grandkids will all be in school next year so noise shouldn’t be an issue…..oh sure 🙄 I can’t wait to ensure silence after school 🙄

        But, but, but, what about me? I lost my office. Oh honey we’ll have an office for 2, we’ll be together. Well OK, is there enough room? Oh sure honey 🙄

        So first it was arguments over the dead yak desk. He finally gave that up. Decided to go with all built ins, but I keep saying there isn’t enough room. Why you say in a 10×12 room wouldn’t there be? Door and window placement for starters, but mainly hubby’s needs. He must have space for his work laptop and 2 large monitors on a stand……but he also “needs” space for his personal laptop and his personal computer…….but where will my computer go?

        Your computer? Well you don’t need a computer, you don’t use it that much anymore, you mostly use your phone……um because I have small kids, when they’re at school I’d prefer to use my computer. Well if you need a computer you can use mine……wait WHAT?

        I’ll put a desk in the bedroom…..what? No I want a big gun safe and other stuff.

        I am surprised at how angry I am, so is he. I will die on this hill. He stays in man cave with his dead yak sized desk or I get my own set up in the bedroom, but I will not play mother may I with his computer, NO! He keeps insisting there is room for both of us in new office, but isn’t willing to consider giving up on say a few inches of counter space. Hmmmm, there is a jack and Jill bathroom connected to the new office, maybe I could set up a desk over the toilet 😂

        Seriously, I’ve worked my butt off to set this all up. I rolled with the changes and suddenly it’s all about him and his wants and desires. I’m not entering the picture. I’d like to express that without screaming obscenities 😂😂 I feel duped and dumped on and he claims to feel hurt and rejected for trying to be closer to me.

        AND I will not give up my computer, no, no, no. Put your gigantic gun safe in your new office I set up for you jackass and you know what else? I’m putting a frilly chaise lounge right next to my desk in the bedroom. Hell I might put up lace curtains, no, no…..PINK, it will be PINK. Get ready to stare at pepto-bismol walls every night buddy because my new office is in the bedroom……OK see. I haven’t made any of those threats, but I feel those, I think those, it’s right under the surface.

        I need to figure out how to express myself without anger. State my case. I understand and appreciate he’s working at a job and I’m not. I’m fine with him having the new office, but I want my own space too, don’t tell me the kitchen is my space because I will hurt someone. I just don’t think it’s fair his wants should be above mine, that he dictates every space. But seriously we are at each other’s throats over this and it’s just damn ridiculous.

        • Ann says:

          We have an office in this house, and since Hubby needed it for work when we moved in, he got it. It is 15’x15′. No way could I fit my desk and me in there too. And yes, Hubby wanted me in the same office “so we could be closer.” And, when he worked? He was on the phone at least 4 hours per day. Yeah, that would have worked. Not.

          He has his big desk with 3 monitors, etc. The side table (which is 10′ long) abuts on the left side to form an L with the short side being the desk, but on top. The wall opposite the desk is a book shelf + a few small cabinets.

          I have an office + photo studio in a spare bedroom. It has my big desk, but is mostly camera equipment, lighting, props, etc. The desktop there is almost never turned on. All my files, etc are in that bedroom’s closet.

          I have a small desk in the family room. That is where I do most of my writing and where my laptop is (when not traveling). However, I do not have three small grandchildren. When we have a family function, I sometimes move that small desk out (think secretary-sized)..

          How about hiring someone to hang the doors in your old office? At least the sights and sounds of the new air handler will be muffled and hidden. You probably should have hired someone to redo the schoolroom.

          As for where you could have your office… is there a third (or fourth) bedroom? Why not take over his mancave? He gets to choose: inside office or garage mancave. You will graciously accept the one he does not want to use as your office.

          • michelina says:

            Ann———–I think you are on the right track—couldn’t give better advice

          • Somebody says:

            Ann, the phone calls OMG, I didn’t even think about that. He has lots of calls AND video conferences. Always at least one conference a week, can be up to 3 or 4 depending on what phase the project is.

            As for other rooms, there are 2 other bedrooms. One is the guest room, which also houses the grandkids toys. Their toys were in the family room, but it really, really bothered my husband to look at a toy box. So I rearranged the guest room and set aside a corner in there for the girls. I can put everything out in the garage when guests come.

            The other bedroom is my youngest daughter’s. She’ll be going to a dorm next fall, so I could set up in there next fall I suppose. She already has a large L shaped desk in there, so it would be a quick set up.

            The school room is the smallest of the 3 bedrooms on that side of the house. Other than that I only have the family room, living room, kitchen/ eat in area, dining room or our bedroom. Out of those my bedroom is the best choice it’s huge, plenty of room for whatever I want……..or I could take your idea and offer man cave or school room, he picks and I get the other 🤔

        • Mothy67 says:

          Ever consider hubby might be jealous of the computer/your online world?

        • votermom says:

          Don’t have a solution but hugs!!!
          AND yes HIRE some ppl to do the grunt work – being exhausted can be enraging.
          I suggest you hire some hunky college guys to help improve your mood.

      • dm says:

        I have no real suggestions for you but I do have a TON of empathy. This past May, June we remodeled the entire first floor, except for the master bedroom. OMG…there were days when I was convinced someone was going to die…maybe me, maybe him, some days I’m not sure it really mattered. We agree on next to nothing, hubby is very much a my way or the highway kind of guy, and many days I thought the highway much more appealing. We all lived through it – not sure exactly how, it involved a lot of me walking away, hands in the air, repeating over and over “I surrender”. Now that it is all done, everything is lovely…except for the family room furniture that HE picked out…he hates it. We have moved everything around countless times and he is still unhappy…he is now trying to learn to live with it…not exactly something that comes natural to him.

        • Somebody says:

          Are we married to the same man? We have same family room furniture issue. Leather power reclining furniture all the way around 🙄

          That was a completely different set of arguments. It was about replacing living room furniture that really NEEDED to be replaced and I’d been promised for 20 flipping years and in fact the living room furniture was finally replaced, but the family room furniture was replaced for the 3rd time first 🙄 power recliners, so minimum energy is expended to kick back and watch the big screen TV…..oh yes and the big screen was replaced for the umpteenth time, it’ll be here Tuesday.

          Our son got a new big screen, 4k, smart TV. Well now you know TV’s are like penises to men 🙄 So of course hubby got a bigger, smarter, better TV….chest thumps!

          Although my older daughter is thrilled. She just bought her first house. Now she gets the two discarded TV’s, both of which are nicer than what she has 😂 In fact we’re delivering them to her this weekend, so that’s my bonus, a trip to see DD’s new house 😉 Her old TV goes in “our” bedroom, which is a downstairs master suite. Then she’ll put one big screen in her family room and the other in her upstairs loft/game room.

          Was your hubby always so opinionated? Mine wasn’t, for the first years of our marriage and our first two houses he never seemed to care or say one word about home decor. All that changed with this house 🙄 He is adamant about some things and we simply don’t agree. I never realized so many things bothered him or upset his sensibilities 🙄 Our house now looks like a dentist office 🙄

          I am determined by hook or by crook to purge the framed maps and fucking palm trees and they shall never return again. We’ve had manly, man stuff for 20 years now out of our 37 year marriage. I’ve conceded the family room to manly, provided there are no maps and by golly no palm trees. I’ve agreed to a streamlined look for the rest of the house, nothing “frilly”, but the living room and dining room decor is another hill for me. Boy I sound like a really angry, bitter woman 😂😂😂

          Seriously, it will be something we agree to, but I will have a say, by george! Married life truly was easier in the early days when he just said, “Yes Dear, whatever you want” 😂😂😂😂 Those were the days! I kid, I kid! I don’t want a doormat spouse, well maybe sometimes 😂

          I don’t know if I can throw my hands up and surrender, hats off to you. I’m too much of a bitch for that. I may have to learn, we’ve got more rooms to go. The kitchen is on our list, we may come to blows over that 😂 I will not tolerate being told what I do or don’t need by someone that on the odd occasion scrambles eggs.

          It helps knowing I’m not the only one! Maybe that’s why so many of our parents houses never changed 😂 Here we thought they were cheap or afraid of change and all the while they were wiser!

          • Mothy67 says:

            Are the holidays the best time to approach these overhauls? I would wait. You have enough on your plate for the next month.

          • Somebody says:

            Haha, holidays are a bad time. We’re not doing the kitchen or the dining room until after the holidays

            The guest room is done. The living room is almost done. One wall to paint, honestly don’t care if that happens after the holidays either. The piano is on that wall, hence why it hasn’t been painted yet.

            We have plantation shutters for all the Windows in all living areas of the house that will arrive on 12-13 (Friday the 13th, how fitting). Hubby will be in NJ and I’m seriously considering “surprising” him by hiring someone to install them. That way they’re in before the holidays and without argument.

            The family room still isn’t painted, but hubby is actually painting it right now. He can be slow at times but he’s got a little over 3 weeks to get it painted. If he doesn’t, my neighbor owns a painting company so that could be another “surprise”.

            As I said the kitchen and dining room were always going to wait until after the holidays.

            That only leaves the school room- new office. This is the room causing the pain. The initial plan was to set up the cabinets and counter we already own that was in my old office in the school room. First painting and hopefully replacing the carpet first.

            The final piece was to switch out the futon currently in that room for a sleeper sofa that is a little bit smaller. That has been done, sort of. We owned the sleeper sofa it was in NJ at hubby’s apartment. It’s now in the school room – new office in its permanent resting place. The futon is across from it, but it goes to my son who lives 3 miles away, so easy to move whenever.

            Painting should have already been done, carpet installed when guest bedroom carpet was installed. BUT, hubby changed everything. No carpet, hardwood, must sound proof walls, so no paint. The cabinets we own? No, no, no, we’re going to have a floating counter in an L shape of African mahogany 🙄

            We need cabinets to store office stuff…..or perhaps you could part with your computer parts graveyard and your 5,000 miles of assorted cords and cables? How about your collection of software? Computers books, programming books? The 3 spare laptops? Four spare monitors? One of the 3 tablets?Anything you could part with? No, well then we’ll need cabinets 🙄

            You see, 95% of the crap in the cabinets is not mine, never was. Did I have stuff in the house that needed to go? Yes and in fact it is gone. He won’t part with anything AND wants all the space for himself.

            If the office switch had gone off like it was supposed to, I’d be set up in there right now.

            I agree with you the holidays are not the time for major projects, this was supposed to be fairly simple and straight forward. It has turned out to be anything but. I guess at this point it might be best to shove everything in there, close the door and require a hold harmless agreement from anyone wanting to enter the room.

            In the meantime, I’ll go buy a cheap desk at Target and set up my computer in our bedroom. He can decide what he wants and I’ll adjust after the fact. So if I do end up in the new office, I’m out $49 for a cheap desk. That’s worth the peace right now and my sanity.

  44. helenk3 says:

    this should be worth watching. rubber band man hopping all over the place

  45. lyn says:

    Karma kissed these assholes: “It was not a good holiday for two employees in separate cases of workplace mistakes.”

    • Mothy67 says:

      I think it was a bit unfair to fire the newsweek person without also firing the editors. Perhaps the same starbucks management. Both created an atmosphere promoting such behavior. How many bogus russia stories has newsweek ran with zero facts? How many times has starbucks allowed the customer cup thing?

  46. helenk3 says:

    interesting. I could think of a few responses but there are no safe spaces for the twits near me and I do not have enough tissues to clean up the water from their tears

  47. Dora says:

    I suppose it’s not necessary to read it all since they already know how they are going to vote.


    Adam Schiff Gives Democrats Only 24 Hours to Sign Impeachment Report

    House Intelligence Committee chairman Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) is giving members of his committee just 24 hours to read and sign off on his report recommending articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump.

  48. Dora says:

  49. helenk3 says:


    when she was little my youngest daughter was in a Hershey Park commercial. They were filming the day we went there. My son who was 8 at the time talked to the producer and got my daughter in it. When they started to film he said to the producer “play it again sam” everybody broke up laughing. when my son found out the my daugher got a dollar for being in it he was sorry he would not be in it

  50. Dora says:

    • lyn says:

      Da Politico Bitch has to dig deeper.

      • lyn says:

        I did the same thing when U.S. Sen John Melcher plopped his butt in the chair by my desk. I was hammering out a story on deadline and told him to come back in half an hour. He did. Had a good interview with him, and AP picked up the story. Ah, the memories. LOL.

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